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Lumber crash leads to 'blowout' sales as prices crater

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Re: Lumber crash leads to 'blowout' sales as prices crater

#311
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

who has all this money to spend? everywhere everything is so expensive. i make a ton, and this doesn't add up. nothing about home prices seems to add up.

Asset managers, banks, property developers, and just general commercial construction are all hiring mostly the same trade professionals as residential. The former are snapping up a lot of homes.

[deleted]

Re: Lumber crash leads to 'blowout' sales as prices crater

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would wait. I'm an licensed inactive General Contractor. If 14 months ago, they were building them for $450,000, I'd wait. I'd shop around for another contractor too. A young guy starting out, might save you a lot. (There's no way to verify he knows what he's doing though.) If you are some what handy, it's not that difficult to owner build your own house. That is if you get the blueprints past the town's council. G…

I'm picturing a web developer in 2023 wondering why everything is slightly tilted in his DIY house even though he used the poured slab as reference

I don’t have extensive DIY experience and this joke is sadly lost on me. Why does the slab not work as a reference?

Re: Lumber crash leads to 'blowout' sales as prices crater

#313
post #25

"If high prices held you back from building, you are in luck, as the tables have now turned" Except... many builders will find some other reason/excuse where prices are high to keep prices high. We were looking at building a house - talked to builder last November and... looking at $470-$480k range (ballpark estimate). Lumber was going higher, but we'd reduced the house plan size. Lumber kept going up... and up... Th…

who has all this money to spend? everywhere everything is so expensive. i make a ton, and this doesn't add up. nothing about home prices seems to add up.

Money is “cheap” and people think in terms of monthly payments only. Done larger builders are pitching things in terms of monthly costs only; they don’t even publish prices, just payment estimates.

Re: Lumber crash leads to 'blowout' sales as prices crater

#314
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Builders often require a nonrefundable deposit to purchase materials prior to the start of a job. That’s where the squeeze happens, after you’ve already selected your contractor.

Huh, so they overcommit, accept deposits, then force some of those customers out - do they return those deposits then? If not, how is this not criminal?

Because the customers are the ones quitting, they forfeit the deposit by their contract.

The developers aren't held to a timeline in the contract. They just stall forever, working on the ones willing to pay the most. If they ever ran out of better customers, they would eventually get around to the cheaper customers.

They've done something unethical, but they haven't broken the contract.

Re: Lumber crash leads to 'blowout' sales as prices crater

#315

"If high prices held you back from building, you are in luck, as the tables have now turned" Except... many builders will find some other reason/excuse where prices are high to keep prices high. We were looking at building a house - talked to builder last November and... looking at $470-$480k range (ballpark estimate). Lumber was going higher, but we'd reduced the house plan size. Lumber kept going up... and up... Th…

They don't need an excuse. Thanks to the idea of the Great Reset, everyone with enough money is trying to have a house they will eventually rent away, or live in it themselves. There's zero reason for prices to go down. None. I've read that plenty of houses are being bought even above asking price, so cost of building isn't a real factor. Sure, I'm not counting the crash where all the clueless dumb money will try to…

You say "only the idiots", but people who have fallen on hard times (perhaps because of that same housing market crash) could be forced to sell their houses, too, essentially hurting them twice.

Re: Lumber crash leads to 'blowout' sales as prices crater

#316
post #25

"If high prices held you back from building, you are in luck, as the tables have now turned" Except... many builders will find some other reason/excuse where prices are high to keep prices high. We were looking at building a house - talked to builder last November and... looking at $470-$480k range (ballpark estimate). Lumber was going higher, but we'd reduced the house plan size. Lumber kept going up... and up... Th…

who has all this money to spend? everywhere everything is so expensive. i make a ton, and this doesn't add up. nothing about home prices seems to add up.

I don't get it either, and I'm a hedge fund manager. To my mind nothing seems like it's a sensible price in any of the cities I look at. I mean I get that there's a fair few people making good money who can buy a £2M home, but it doesn't make any sense that there are entire swathes of London where every home is like that.

A quick google suggests that a £100K income is in the top 3% in this country, and top 1% is about £176K.

Sure, there's a few hundred football players averaging maybe £3M a year who can thus buy maybe a £15M palace, but if you go on a property site they could each buy one and still have pages and pages of places left on the market.

Similarly there's a bunch of finance/media/law people who've climbed to the top of the greasy pole and could afford a £3M house. But how many can we really be talking about? A few thousand? Ten thousand? Are there really that many MDs and law partners in London?

Average income is still well under 6 figures in this country, and I know a load of doctors who are only just scraping into that category in their 30s. So if you're just scraping into 6 figs as a highly trained and rare specialist, how can there be so many houses that cost 7 figures?

Even if you add parental help, how many people who are splitting inheritance between 2/3 kids is it actually going to help?

I suspect a lot of people have actually drawn on all reserves: found a high income partner, got help from the parents, got a max leveraged mortgage, and possibly some have lied about their income.

I get the feeling it will end badly.

Re: Lumber crash leads to 'blowout' sales as prices crater

#317

"If high prices held you back from building, you are in luck, as the tables have now turned" Except... many builders will find some other reason/excuse where prices are high to keep prices high. We were looking at building a house - talked to builder last November and... looking at $470-$480k range (ballpark estimate). Lumber was going higher, but we'd reduced the house plan size. Lumber kept going up... and up... Th…

> people will be clamoring for HELOCs as they won't be able to sell these $700k houses they're buying

Why would you want a HELOC just because you can't sell your house for a profit?

Re: Lumber crash leads to 'blowout' sales as prices crater

#318

If you wait for a bit longer you will see prices rise again and then fall again until the market finds back its equilibrium. This is known as the bullwhip effect: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullwhip_effect

That looks a lot like a stock market pattern (and it makes sense it does)

Do you know about any books that might expand on the subject, maybe mentioning other effects?

Re: Lumber crash leads to 'blowout' sales as prices crater

#319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder whether etherium finally moving to proof of stake will actually have an impact on gpu prices.

No, those people will move to a new coin

No, you don't simply "move to a new coin". ETH is currently a 420B market cap and rewards GPU miners something on the order of 13,000 ETH a day conservatively (without fees). That's nearly 50m dollars a day or 1.5B dollars a month!

The only "other coins" available to be mined with GPUs are tiny. Ethereum classic has only a 8B market cap, Ravencoin with 1B, then many sub 1B coins.

https://www.kryptex.org/en/mining-calculator

Re: Lumber crash leads to 'blowout' sales as prices crater

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that’s not really skyrocketing if your point of reference is other volatile things (stocks, crypto currencies, etc).

It's skyrocketing for a real good that people consume in the everyday of industry. Not some silly fantasy speculation good, like crypto or... overvalued stock.

“skyrocketing” is a subjective term. It doesn’t matter if it’s something consumed every day. What one person considers sky rocketing for a price will be different than another.

> Not some silly fantasy speculation good, like crypto or... overvalued stock.

Apple is not a “silly fantasy speculation good” anymore than a lumber futures contract.

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