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After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

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Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#311

Post by PhasmaFelis »

lazide wrote: post #91
tobias__ wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel if it was for a purpose like this it could be contextualized to the employee (which IMO is necessary if they're going to write anything that is useful for any purpose beyond personal interest)

It would if he wanted to, and it’s what we generally expect of good bosses. I don’t think there is any rule requiring it anywhere I’ve seen.

> I don’t think there is any rule requiring it anywhere I’ve seen.

No one claimed there was. They said that not doing it makes him a bad boss. You seem to be in agreement.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#312

Post by ace_of_spades »

jmeister wrote: post #295
truetraveller wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is today's cancel culture, unfortunately. Dramatize and exaggerate things. And hypocrisy, but that's a separate issue.

This is just a consequence of feminization of society. I used to work on Wall St, and it’s a rite of passage there for senior people to send juniors to fetch cigars or lunchboxes. I’ve seen execs angrily bang on glass walls of their cabins so hard, hundreds on the open-floor outside would notice. Two quotes from Camille Paglia: “There is no female Mozart because there is no female Jack-the-Ripper.” You have to tolera…

wow, so much missing nuance and little actual understanding… I am not religious but bless your soul… is all I want to say to this

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#313

Post by aix1 »

arkitaip wrote: post #2

> Google’s reported willingness to put up with Suleyman's behavior stands in stark contrast to its swift termination of Timnit Gebru and Margaret Mitchell, former co-leads of its AI ethics team who produced research that challenged the company’s direction on large language models. Suleyman is a sociopath who makes Google money - that's why he was promoted and rewarded for his sociopathy.

> who makes Google money

Could you expand on this a bit? How, specifically, does DeepMind make Google money?

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#314

Post by ATsch »

edgyquant wrote: post #133
ATsch wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but a good architect bully is not a bit better than a bad manager bully.

You can tell the architect with no power over you to, politely, go fuck themselves. You can not do this to your manager.

This is very naive but more importantly, there are more than enough engineers out there that there's no need to risk creating a hostile workplace by employing bullies anywhere in your organisation.

Why are you so intent in employing them?

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#315

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

cma wrote: post #305
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The underlying idea I think you're missing is that personnel disputes just shouldn't be litigated through the media. There's no reliable information that can be gained and no productive discussion that can be had; the only possible outcome is to feed our confirmation biases and provide a platform to get mad. For example, you mention: > Where did all the Friends of Voltaire go, I wonder? Where was all of this sympathy…

> You're condemning people who argue against you here, not because of anything they said, but because of your assumptions about what position they might have taken in a different controversy about different people. Can you prove this beyond a reasonable doubt? Should you have to?

Well, I’m not sure what “have to” means. If I got a Washington Post article published about how suchandsuch person made a HN comment I don’t like, I would call that a clear case of harassment, no matter how much proof I had that the comment was wrong.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#316

Post by bob_roberts »

jmeister wrote: post #295
truetraveller wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is today's cancel culture, unfortunately. Dramatize and exaggerate things. And hypocrisy, but that's a separate issue.

This is just a consequence of feminization of society. I used to work on Wall St, and it’s a rite of passage there for senior people to send juniors to fetch cigars or lunchboxes. I’ve seen execs angrily bang on glass walls of their cabins so hard, hundreds on the open-floor outside would notice. Two quotes from Camille Paglia: “There is no female Mozart because there is no female Jack-the-Ripper.” You have to tolera…

> This is just a consequence of feminization of society.

I'd say you're using misogyny to justify what sounds like very typical toxic masculinity.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#317

Post by peakaboo »

joebob42 wrote: post #249
klyrs wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a fun one: > "Employees said Suleyman encouraged them to use private chat groups on Signal and Telegram for work conversations, some of which were set up to automatically delete messages after a set period. Employees were also on occasion asked to delete messages from their phones, a former employee said. They were also told to notify the group once they had done so." The burden of proof is on the claimant, su…

Google makes all employees do this, for whatever it's worth. I think this may just be kinda standard for corporate stuff. (Not telegram, but the self destructing messages)

It's not kind of standard. Are you mad?

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#318

Post by thereare5lights »

torstenvl wrote: post #274
thereare5lights wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary. At no point did I make a comment on your character or any other aspect of you personally. The only comments I made were specific towards your question and its implications. You can call it a personal attack if you wish. That doesn't make it true. > would you mind answering the question? I won't because as I pointed out already, your question comes from a flawed premise.

Oh dear. I am afraid I must have communicated poorly or perhaps you misread the question. I am asking what the delta between set B (bullying) and set C (criminal activity) is. What false premise is there? If you don't think there's a delta, then you agree with me ab initio. If you do think there's a delta, then how can you say that asking what the delta is relies on a false premise?

And I'm telling you you can answer your own question by examining what the delta is between what is considered bullying between students in K-12 and criminal activity.

Do you believe that bullying between students in K-12 is criminal activity. That's what I'm getting from you asking that question. Either that or you don't believe bullying is even a real thing.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#319

Post by Closi »

Talanes wrote: post #208
jay_kyburz wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but, red tape. When you ask a business unit to do it, it becomes a whole big thing. When you ask somebody on your team to do it, it might not be as good, but it gets done.

Only if you don't actually care what "done" means. Anyone can make an omelette if you're willing to define an omelette as "literally any eggs cooked in a pan." But I'd rather just ask someone who actually knows how to make an omelette.

I guess it depends what you are trying to achieve by cooking an omelette. Taking the analogy to an extreme:

If you want to serve a really high-quality meal and are willing to wait a few days or weeks to get the omelette then you would probably wait for a chef from the omelette department, or hire in an external consulting chef. Note that a single omelette will take a long time to get this way, as you will probably also have to get authorisation to hire/spend money/use another teams resources.

If you needed food now, and if eggs in a pan now are better than omelettes in a few weeks, you would probably just find someone from your team to do it and you would have an omelette within the hour. It won't be as good, but it's better than waiting if you are hungry.

If you weren't cooking an omelette, and were writing a report trying to assess if the omelette team should be rolled into the frittata, you probably wouldn't ask the omelette team to write this report. Sure, they might have the most knowledge of how the team works and their capabilities, but asking the omelette team to write this report might have a pro-omelette bias because there is a conflict-of-interest in terms of job preservation.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#320

Post by chrisseaton »

Spooky23 wrote: post #144
chrisseaton wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were these peopled hired for responsibilities including historical briefings? No? So why are they being asked to do them?

If you want to work to a job description, go join the plumbers union.

How far does this go? If you boss asks someone to strip for him is that ok? It's a legal job after all. If they didn't want to do that because it's not their job would you say 'go join the plumbers union'?
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