Are there any resources summarizing the differences between… - CalyxOS - Purism, Librem - microG - /e/ - LineageOS - LineageOS for microG - GrapheneOS And I’m sure many other Android open source/degooglers?
It doesn't answer your real question, but still, I'll try to make a summary: All of CalyxOS, LineageOS, LineageOS for microG, GrapheneOS and /e/ are Android distributions (based on the open-source part of Android, with some modifications and additions) Purism (brand name) Librem 5 (model name) is an opensource smartphones that reduces black boxes to closed areas, while on most smartphones black boxes like modem share…
CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative
311–320 of 496 posts
Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative
#312Are there any resources summarizing the differences between… - CalyxOS - Purism, Librem - microG - /e/ - LineageOS - LineageOS for microG - GrapheneOS And I’m sure many other Android open source/degooglers?
Purism's Librem runs GNU/Linux, not Android; microG is a free replacement for Google bits in Android (Google "services", including location services from other sources); LineageOS is a non-privacy focussed, somewhat de-Googled Android; /e/ is a privacy and free software focussed derivative of LineageOS with a larger set of supported hardware; GrapheneOS is a security-focussed (not privacy-focussed) version of Android…
Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative
#313Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not really the point though is it? It's more like 'I do like it.. is it sensible to use it?' At least, that's how I read it, and how I feel about such things. I'd very much like my next phone to run Linux (i.e. be a Pinephone) though.
I got a Pinephone. I like the idea, but it's a deeply frustrating experience right now. Basic table-stakes features I have come to assume from both Android and iOS platforms just aren't there yet. It's a frustrating chicken egg problem... I want the thing to succeed, but my smartphone is so critical to my day-to-day that I can either wait for it to get better or invest the time into having it suck on toast while I im…
Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative
#314Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would also like to hear more on this, a quick look at TrackerControl's readme tells me it mainly functions as a blocklist. Which (I would think) the moment you turn off tracker control to use google maps (or whatever play services app you wanted to use for a moment), said app will send a flood of queued location data that it has been collecting in the background if allowed. I suppose that setup could work if the us…
> the moment you turn off tracker control to use google maps... No, it works per app. I'm also a TC user, it's quite great. Per app you tell it whether it should allow talking to various motherships. You can toggle on broad categories (for a given app) or also more fine-grained. It also logs which services applications tried to contact, so I can see that Spotify that I pay for is trying to send god knows what to Face…
If I block infinitedata-pa.gogleapis.com, maps will not function, but google maps will continue to collect telemetry data on my phone if it is running and has permissions. It will save that collected data until a user unblocks essential monitoring in order to use maps (Unless the user clears cache/data, or uninstalls maps, before unblocking).
That is the case I am pointing out, tc is a stopgap (and a welcome/useful one) but it does _not_ provide users a way to prevent _collecting_ of telemetry data to be sent off the device. It just delays the sending until the applications use is more valuable than the users privacy.
Edit: Things that could help with that:
1. Physical kill switches for radios (I know, that's not going to happen from any major arm cpu maker, the SOC is integrated, but it's the most practical solution.).
2. Granular permissions settings for androids network location provider. As an example, A permission that if app is running in the background send spoofed location data back (Once again, it's not that simple telemetry data is coming from many sources, I'm just listing what solves the problem.).
Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative
#315Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's places like APK mirror or Aurora which will download .apk's from the play store. The problem with degoogled phones isn't not accessing the google play store, it's not having the confusingly named google play services. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Play_Services A lot of apps rely on google play services. It mostly depends on how much of google play services an app requires as to whether it'll work on…
CalyxOS includes microG, which solves the compatibility issue for some of Google Play Services' most essential features, including push notifications, better geolocation, and map rendering. microG also keeps Google's in-app ads disabled. Implementation status: https://github.com/microg/GmsCore/wiki/Implementation-Status
Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative
#316It used to be that iOS was the recommended phone OS if you were looking for the best combination of privacy and security. Even Daniel Micay (the lead developer of GrapheneOS) thought so, 2 years ago [0]. But these ROMs are looking much more mature these days. Anyone have thoughts on how CalyxOS and GrapheneOS compare to iOS in the present day? [0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/GrapheneOS/comments/bddq5u/os_secur...
Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative
#317Earlier quoted context omitted.
Disagree. The reputation of Nick Calyx (worth a look his Wikipedia page), or GrapheneOS team, etc, is so much easier lost than that of, say, Google's Android team.....or iOS security team. Having said that: Calyx shouldn't be considered much more secure than Android Open Source Project (AOSP). That's where GrapheneOS shines. Calyx should, however, be considered more private than AOSP, less dodgy & exploitable than Sa…
Yeah GrapheneOS is security over privacy, Calyx is privacy over security (and has a bit more mainstream appeal with MicroG, supporting push messaging and location services etc). GrapheneOS has also pioneered a lot of security measures, a lot of which have been added to Android proper (if you see their feature log, a lot of it says "removed because it was introduced in Android"). I wonder if that wouldn't have been th…
No, GrapheneOS is heavily focused on both privacy and security. See https://grapheneos.org/features for a list of the enhancements compared to the latest Android Open Source Project. GrapheneOS offers substantial privacy advantages over CalyxOS. It has a bunch of nice privacy improvements, carefully designed to work against real adversaries. Bypasses of privacy features are taken very seriously and prioritized as security vulnerabilities. GrapheneOS also doesn't integrate proprietary apps/services into the OS. We'd never stick WhatsApp support in the Dialer or ship Google services integrated into the OS in a special way not available to other apps. Services should be on an equal playing ground. That's the real issue with Play services and with iOS too.
GrapheneOS has full MAC randomization, DHCP anonymity and doesn't reuse IPv6 addresses across networks.
GrapheneOS has the Network permission toggle for disallowing both direct and indirect network access. Calyx takes an approach that allows apps to bypass it via APIs gated by the INTERNET permission. It also has other bypasses. They present it as a firewall app with a fancy name, but it's just a UI for the AOSP firewall and it doesn't really work as they present it. https://gitlab.com/CalyxOS/calyxos/-/issues/454 acknowledges the issue but presents an unworkable plan to address it. The approach doesn't work. Similarly, fine-grained filtering of domains/addresses in most firewalls even as a whitelist doesn't work due to DNS acting as 2-way communication via a permitted IP to arbitrary third parties. These indirect forms of access can't simply be ignored.
GrapheneOS has the Sensors toggle to disallow apps from accessing the miscellaneous sensors usable for coarse movement (which can map to location) and audio recording among other things.
It has substantially privacy improvements beyond these things, but they're some nice examples. I strongly recommend looking through https://grapheneos.org/features and keep in mind it does not list AOSP features as most projects would. Avoiding bundling third party apps and services is explicitly listed as a feature rather than listing out integrating proprietary services and assorted apps.
GrapheneOS is also focused on usability, and it's hard to deny that https://grapheneos.org/install/web is a very nice way of performing the install. The fastboot.js library powering it is a project we funded.
> and has a bit more mainstream appeal with MicroG, supporting push messaging and location services etc
Location works properly on GrapheneOS, as do notifications.
https://grapheneos.org/faq#notifications
GrapheneOS has a sandboxed Play services compatibility layer for running Play services with zero special privileges:
https://grapheneos.org/usage#sandboxed-play-services
Despite being very new, it's already rapidly moving beyond what microG supports. It doesn't require making the security sacrifices of microG by losing the standard security checks and key pinning. It also doesn't make privacy sacrifices: it provides Play with zero additional access. Apps using Play include the Play client libraries. Many of these fully work without Play services installed, including Google's Ads library. That only has a hard dependency on Play services if apps use the Lite variant: https://developers.google.com/admob/android/lite-sdk. The claims about microG privacy/security benefits are not just overstated but backwards. It also only implements a tiny subset of the API.
Sandboxed Play services compatibility layer is another much more broadly application project funded by us, among others.
> GrapheneOS has also pioneered a lot of security measures, a lot of which have been added to Android proper (if you see their feature log, a lot of it says "removed because it was introduced in Android").
We're also implemented a lot of substantial privacy measures. There aren't really distinctions between these things. GrapheneOS helped get substantial app sandbox restrictions into AOSP restricting the information available to apps.
Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative
#318Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah GrapheneOS is security over privacy, Calyx is privacy over security (and has a bit more mainstream appeal with MicroG, supporting push messaging and location services etc). GrapheneOS has also pioneered a lot of security measures, a lot of which have been added to Android proper (if you see their feature log, a lot of it says "removed because it was introduced in Android"). I wonder if that wouldn't have been th…
Don't privacy and security go hand in hand?
GrapheneOS treats bypasses of privacy features as security vulnerabilities. It offers substantial privacy advantages of CalyxOS and doesn't come with the privacy drawbacks it introduces. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28095033 (above) for a more in-depth explanation.
Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative
#319I purchased a Pixel phone to test this stuff on. I installed LineageOS and found I couldn't run some google apps. I reinstalled LineageOS with https://opengapps.org added during the install and made the mistake of transferring from my old phone which brought all the google services and everything back to the phone (mostly). I then installed CalyxOS - much easier install process than lineage. Really liked the defaults…
CalyxOS includes microG which supports some of the most popular APIs. Which apps did you have issues with?
Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative
#320> microG replaces some functions of Google Play Services while maintaining much more anonymity and privacy. I've said it before and saying it again on here for those that don't know: microG breaks the security model on android and adds in package signature spoofing. It's the only way to add a fake Google Play Services without needing to pull Google blobs. This is why projects like LineageOS are against using this met…
It seems like what we really want here is for the app to implement its own notifications without going through Firebase. All you need for push rather than polling is an open socket...