Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone? • Hacker News Board

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#311

Post by charlesu » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:03 PM UTC

cbozeman wrote: post #188

whall6 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Why would I seek a job if the unemployment benefits pay me nearly as much to do nothing?

Because you have self-respect and shouldn't be taking handouts if you're capable of working? No one capable of working should be taking unemployment, ever. This is how social safety nets get demonized by politicians, and it works. A factory worker and mother of three who was making car parts from the start of COVID-19 until now and was never laid off and who never had the option of quitting work, fucking hates someon…

Who said these people aren’t working? I see a lot of people retraining, pivoting, and taking care of others. That’s work. Just because it doesn’t pay doesn’t mean it isn’t work or valuable. Being a stay at home parent doesn’t pay, but it’s clearly valuable.

Employment is a means to an end: basic survival. We do it because we’re forced to by forced scarcity. There may be virtue in work, but there’s no inherent virtue in employment.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#312

Post by agumonkey » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:03 PM UTC

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #203

agumonkey wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's only partially true, as a company you have infinitely more leverage in society than an individual you weigh more, you're worth more, it doesn't last forever but the difference is staggering

You also have product to sell/deliver, and no unemployment benefits. Many, many businesses have failed during the current plague situation... maybe not amazon and walmart, but a lot of small and middle sized businesses.

yes but depending on the state / size of your company, you can reallocate people in emergency mode, work more yourself (if you're the boss), ask for loans at the bank, you can absorb a lot more than a single individual can

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#313

Post by varjag » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:04 PM UTC

jonathanlb wrote: post #212

whall6 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Why would I seek a job if the unemployment benefits pay me nearly as much to do nothing?

It might be important to distiguish doing "nothing" from not being on the job market. It's possible to contribute to society by making art, writing, cooking, spending time with family, caring for others, etc. as well as self-actualizing via exercise, reading, meditation, and so on.

Meditation is very much doing nothing.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#314

Post by f0xytr0xy » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:07 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #268

RobertKerans wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a joke comment? I'm starting to lose the ability to see sarcasm I think. Why would you have expected them to have been busy in the last six months?

They were busier (for pickup) this winter than this summer. I checked my own order history at our previously favorite pizza place. We ordered about 5x/month from Nov ‘20-Mar ‘21 when large cheeses were $9+tax and there was often a line for pickup. We now order around 1x/month (at $13+tax) and walk directly to the counter. If anything, CV19 is much less a safety concern now than before.

As a VP does that $4 difference really mean anything to you?

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#315

Post by fallenspec » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

heurisko wrote: post #222

fallenspec wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> OP's statement leads straight to "they're out to get me," which is absolutely not helpful, and it's absolutely an indicator of a difficult hire. Not at all. If you've been out of work for a year and seeing your savings (if you have any) dwindle and vent on what is an internet comment sections, doesn't indicate how you are in person at all. > If I'm interviewing someone and the person is demonstrating a victim narra…

In addition to Matt Hancock, there was also the case of exemptions from quarantine for UEFA football VIPs. [1] I think it's right the UK is returning to personal responsibility, especially as many of the rules haven't seemed to be science-based e.g. you must wear a mask entering a pub, but you are allowed to remove the mask while eating seated. It's health-theatre, rather than virus prevention. [1] https://www.thegua…

There were many notable people who were exposed as to exposing that we all should be lockdown while breaking the rules themselves. It is quite frustrating when I live in an area where almost everyone followed the rules.

Yes there is a quite an element to theatre to the whole thing, which makes sensible discussion about the issue impossible. Which I believe is somewhat by design.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#316

Post by morpheos137 » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #146

m0llusk wrote: post #88

It is strange that the top known factors for this are not even mentioned in this or other similar news stories. First, closing of schools caused large numbers of women to leave the workforce in order to care for children. Until schools are fully open and day care is available those women will probably not be going back to work. Second, all markets are cultivated things. Employers in the most troubled sectors have rec…

> All of this stuff about workers disappearing and people reconsidering their lives is pretty much a sideshow of projected narrative that is detached from what is really going on. Well said. We’ve been bombarded with news articles and thought pieces about how COVID has forever changed the workforce, how people are refusing to work jobs they don’t like, how people are quitting en masse because their employers won’t al…

I wonder how significant the booming stock market is? Maybe people are neglecting to work because their Tesla stock is up some absurd amount over 5 years or whatever. Same for crypto. But when these people start treating such capital gains as disposeable income then it will cause inflation.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#317

Post by f0xytr0xy » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #238

bumby wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the solution to that is a proper social safety net Playing devils advocate with your logic, how is this different from preventing the market from “clearing” non-viable businesses? I.e., don’t many safety net programs essentially subsidize business profits by allowing employers to lower wages?

It's different because allowing people to work for low wages gives them a chance to improve their skills and move up to higher wage jobs rather than perpetually living off welfare.

Do you understand that most peoppe on welfare and/or section 8 housing also are required to work shitty jobs in order to receive those “handouts”?

Very few people leave poverty in the usa because of many factors that have nothing to do with welfare.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#318

Post by notpachet » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

cbozeman wrote: post #188

whall6 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Why would I seek a job if the unemployment benefits pay me nearly as much to do nothing?

Because you have self-respect and shouldn't be taking handouts if you're capable of working? No one capable of working should be taking unemployment, ever. This is how social safety nets get demonized by politicians, and it works. A factory worker and mother of three who was making car parts from the start of COVID-19 until now and was never laid off and who never had the option of quitting work, fucking hates someon…

This is a bit too reductionist for my liking.

Imagine, as a kind of empathetic thought exercise, that instead of someone taking handouts and playing Xbox all day, they were taking handouts and then doing online coursework to try and learn a new skill to make themselves more employable in the future. Does that still imply a lack of self-respect?

We're all effectively taking handouts to some degree or another just by participating in collective society. It's just a question of how much we're contributing back, and how. I try not to judge people too aggressively in terms of how they are contributing back; they may be doing so in ways that I cannot see.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#319

Post by neilwilson » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

dcolkitt wrote: post #226

thechao wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If labor is a market, laborers are at a fundamental disadvantage compared to employers when it comes to clearance: the employer has an asymmetric advantage in its ability to wait to hire someone; laborers are a lot less capable. I don’t know that unemployment is a good solution, but I think it speaks volumes that people might be using it to balance the standard inequity.

This is a common refrain, but I doubt many who say have actually actual experience as an employer. In many businesses the inability to staff leads to existential threat to the entire business. If you're a restaurant and can't seat customers or a SaaS startup and can't keep your service uptime, you'll go out of business very quickly. That represents millions in enterprise value. In contrast an employer who gets fired,…

A business has no right to exist.

If you want staff, pay the rate or close.

Or automate/improve your processes.

We need businesses in an economy, not any particular business.

Re: Employee shortages: Where have all the workers gone?

#320

Post by sokoloff » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 5:10 PM UTC

f0xytr0xy wrote: post #314

sokoloff wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were busier (for pickup) this winter than this summer. I checked my own order history at our previously favorite pizza place. We ordered about 5x/month from Nov ‘20-Mar ‘21 when large cheeses were $9+tax and there was often a line for pickup. We now order around 1x/month (at $13+tax) and walk directly to the counter. If anything, CV19 is much less a safety concern now than before.

As a VP does that $4 difference really mean anything to you?

We've switched many of our family's Friday night pizza nights to "make pizza at home". Can I afford $4 more? Of course. Do I see the same level of value in a ~50% more expensive pizza? Of course not.