Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out • Hacker News Board

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#311

Post by dorchadas » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 2:04 PM UTC

enjo wrote: post #225

dorchadas wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely would be more accepting of it if they only allowed ones where the landlord was on-site, yes.

In Denver the law is that a person can only AirBnb a property that is their primary residence. If you have an ADU or want to rent a room you can do that full time. We rent our place when we travel.. It seems like a good compromise to me.

I would agree with that, and then fine AirBnB itself whenever anyone breaks the rules. That'll get them to take it seriously as well. I definitely see nothing wrong with you renting out your house while gone on vacation. The issue I have is when people buy a house and take it off the market to rent it out to short term leasers.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#312

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 2:04 PM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #281

dorchadas wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if it wasn't for people turning that supply into AirBnBs to satisfy their short term greed and tourists, there wouldn't be as much of an issue. AirBnB has certainly contributed a lot to the lack of supply in major tourist destinations.

I live in San Francisco, so I know my view of crazy housing markets is skewed, but I guarantee you that housing would be just as expensive here if Airbnb didn't exist. And let's not assume that anyone who wants to list a property on Airbnb is mainly motivated by greed. Attempting to paint the people on the other side of your argument as evil is a pretty transparently bad argumentation strategy.

[deleted]

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#313

Post by wonder_er » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 2:15 PM UTC

another-dave wrote: post #286

wonder_er wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still can't tell which is happening: 1. You're trolling us with masterfully-ported prohibition-era enforcement mechanisms 2. You consider yourself a prohibitionist (of alcohol, drugs, or airbnb) and are advocating for prohibition-style responses to AirBnB. 3. You don't consider yourself a prohibitionist, and don't see how your opposition to AirBnB (and recommended enforcement mechanisms) is very similar to prohibit…

Local authorities do licence checks on pubs and bars at the moment. If there was someone illegally running a pub out of their own house it would definitely be cracked down on in this way — does that mean that we currently have "prohibition-era enforcement" on alcohol too?

Yep. It's prohibition-lite, but still a holdover from that era.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#314

Post by wonder_er » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 2:15 PM UTC

rightbyte wrote: post #282

wonder_er wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still can't tell which is happening: 1. You're trolling us with masterfully-ported prohibition-era enforcement mechanisms 2. You consider yourself a prohibitionist (of alcohol, drugs, or airbnb) and are advocating for prohibition-style responses to AirBnB. 3. You don't consider yourself a prohibitionist, and don't see how your opposition to AirBnB (and recommended enforcement mechanisms) is very similar to prohibit…

Prohibitionist? Enforcing hotel regulations and zoning is not prohibiting hotels.

Unless the zoning prohibits hotels.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#315

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 2:32 PM UTC

colechristensen wrote: post #198

dionidium wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve rented many apartments and I perceive the transaction to have been mutually beneficial in every case.

Did you believe it was a fair price? As though the amount of work you were doing and the quality of it matched the amount of "work" you were paying for?

[deleted]

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#316

Post by dionidium » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 2:38 PM UTC

colechristensen wrote: post #198

dionidium wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve rented many apartments and I perceive the transaction to have been mutually beneficial in every case.

Did you believe it was a fair price? As though the amount of work you were doing and the quality of it matched the amount of "work" you were paying for?

Yes. I slept in those apartments every night. Drank water from the tap. Washed my clothes. They served precisely the needs I expected them to at exactly the price I negotiated with the landlord.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#317

Post by sudosysgen » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 2:38 PM UTC

handmodel wrote: post #3

The article doesn't mention it - and I can't find it anywhere - but in any neighborhood what is the highest proportion of units that are short-term rentals. Five percent? Ten percent in the super touristy areas? I have no idea and even before the other flaws in the study I am skeptical than anything short of 20% would make an impact on any major attribute of an area. I see one stat in the paper that "40% of buildings…

It only takes ~3% of short term rentals in theory to send prices skyrocketing.

If half the units that would be vacant in wait for a long term occupant are instead flipped on Airbnb, actual rental supply is flipped, even if in reality only 5% of units are Airbnbs.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#318

Post by jolux » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

HWR_14 wrote: post #254

jolux wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how expensive is it really The answer, as with all govtech, is “a lot more than it should be.” Governments, especially local governments, have no internal technology competence, and have to rely on vendors and contractors for absolutely everything.

I haven't seen any evidence that governments, local or otherwise, spend "a lot more than it should [cost]." They are (correctly) unable to subsidize the cost of development by selling data, which in some cases means they cannot use certain preexisting libraries. But many groups have to rely on vendors and contractors for their technical needs. Their costs should be compared to other groups outsourcing their needs.

> They are (correctly) unable to subsidize the cost of development by selling data, which in some cases means they cannot use certain preexisting libraries.

This is not what raises the cost of development. It’s not having any in-house knowledge of software development or even how to manage software development contracts effectively. Most companies that require a lot of software end up building development organizations, because they recognize that paying someone else to do it is more expensive long-term. That’s not an option available to most governments.

It’s possible that this is just an inherent effect of outsourcing but even if it is, it ends up being too inefficient to justify.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#319

Post by wpietri » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 2:48 PM UTC

amadeuspagel wrote: post #111

wpietri wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supply increase difficulty has not changed recently. Demand increase has. So if we're going to blame it on one factor, it makes sense to pick the one that has changed and is easier to control. Less friction in increasing supply is also not an unalloyed good. You can look at the commercial office market, which is much less restricted and has huge boom/bust cycles. And that's before we get to the externalities of rapid…

> You can look at the commercial office market, which is much less restricted and has huge boom/bust cycles. This is a problem only for investors. Dealing with that is their job. Protecting them from it is not a good reason to restrict housing supply.

It's not just a problem for investors. It's also a problem for cities, as boom-bust cycles can drastically misallocate resources.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#320

Post by wpietri » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 3:27 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #71

wpietri wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supply increase difficulty has not changed recently. Demand increase has. So if we're going to blame it on one factor, it makes sense to pick the one that has changed and is easier to control. Less friction in increasing supply is also not an unalloyed good. You can look at the commercial office market, which is much less restricted and has huge boom/bust cycles. And that's before we get to the externalities of rapid…

> Supply increase difficulty has not changed recently Sure, but supply keeps increasing less than demand is increasing, accumulating the housing shortage each year. This is a decades old trend, from long before AirBnb. I think that supply increase is vastly dominated by regular old population increase in cities that refuse to build housing. I'd need a lot of convincing to believe AirBnb is more than a minor factor.

Yes, and I said, I'm for supply increase for exactly that reason. But it's a complicated problem, and AirBnB's unarguable supply decrease can only make it worse.