Restaurant workers quit at record rate • Hacker News Board

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#311

Post by jklinger410 » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 8:19 PM UTC

kop316 wrote: post #235

yepthatsreality wrote: post #4

The restaurant industry has known the solution for a long time but everyone wants to pretend it would be too difficult. Stop the tipping guilt trip placed on the public, raise your prices 20%, and pay your employees a livable wage. The public will still show up to eat in your restaurant.

That may be the case for some....but that is not the case for all. For one ancedote, my father in-law runs a restaurant with my aunt in-law (his sister). They are the only workers, and split the profits evenly. They are in the midwest (low taxes), and own the restaurant's property/building. They were able to completely shut down during COVID and restart back up, and have survived several economic downturns. They are…

> shutting down their restaurant and retiring rather than raising prices

Sounds good.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#312

Post by dtjb » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 8:20 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #177

ericbarrett wrote: post #73

Wages/insurance/tips are an ongoing concern of food service work, but I want to set that aside and talk about the other half of the article. Customer entitlement is out of control and anybody who works with the general public will tell you it’s gotten even worse since the pandemic—and it wasn’t trending in the right direction before. Flight attendants, park rangers, government clerks, the anecdotes are everywhere, in…

> Customer entitlement is out of control It's not just customer entitlement. It's been a steadily rising thing throughout society for my whole life. People are less and less willing to accept responsibility for their choices, and more and more it's always someone else's fault. For example, a person who chose to go $300,000 into debt to go to Columbia film school, where the starting salary upon graduating is $30,000,…

You seem to be bringing some foreign baggage to this conversation.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#313

Post by bencollier49 » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 8:20 PM UTC

Hjfrf wrote: post #227

rusk wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe a cut in VAT would help? Although that probably doesn’t help in the states …

If you're taking about the UK, the obvious starting point would be ending subsidies for buy-to-let. In a pandemic with vast spending deficits, the government is giving out mortgage holidays, 95% mortgage scheme, stamp duty holiday etc.

I think some of this might be down to a lot of pensions being invested in property. It feels a little bit like the dam is bursting in several places at once; I'm not hopeful.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#314

Post by diob » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 8:21 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #177

ericbarrett wrote: post #73

Wages/insurance/tips are an ongoing concern of food service work, but I want to set that aside and talk about the other half of the article. Customer entitlement is out of control and anybody who works with the general public will tell you it’s gotten even worse since the pandemic—and it wasn’t trending in the right direction before. Flight attendants, park rangers, government clerks, the anecdotes are everywhere, in…

> Customer entitlement is out of control It's not just customer entitlement. It's been a steadily rising thing throughout society for my whole life. People are less and less willing to accept responsibility for their choices, and more and more it's always someone else's fault. For example, a person who chose to go $300,000 into debt to go to Columbia film school, where the starting salary upon graduating is $30,000,…

This seems like a wild take to be honest. Humanity over the generations remains much the same beast, it's just that as you get old you forget the lessons your generation had to learn by experience (rose tinted glasses so to speak). You also fail to see that the context of the humans being raised today is different from yours, and their experiences / opportunities different as well. Heck, even those in your generation likely had wildly different experiences / opportunities compared to you.

It's also weird to present such a wild off the wall example at the end. I don't think such people are common.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#315

Post by ajross » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 8:21 PM UTC

yepthatsreality wrote: post #52

namdnay wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, as necessary as that is, it’s not a magic solution. People are quitting the restaurant industry in France too, despite having none of the tip silliness. It’s just that people are realizing that there are easier minimum wage jobs than working in a kitchen

Sure but this goes beyond restaurants in my opinion. Look at these states that had mass migration of people during the pandemic. You will find the (big) sky-rocketing cost of living where those who are moving in on a whim are also not seeking jobs in the state. However all these businesses need employees to handle the new increase in customers. The employers aren’t raising their wages either, which is also not attrac…

This is exactly it. This is a second order effect of the pandemic flight, not a "restaurant" thing at all. People facing long term unemployment/underemployment over the past year had huge incentives to "move back home" (or wherever) to places with lower cost of living.

And who feels that pressure the most? Service workers, who had jobs in the cities, sure, but didn't reap any of the economic benefits of all that urban wealth concentration. They're overrepresented in the population who fled, which means their jobs are now underserved.

Long term, this will probably just be viewed as a correction to a few overpopulated urban cores. We'll find equilibrium again, though not at the same state as before.

But regardless, the fix here is the same: pay more for the jobs and you'll find people willing to do them.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#316

Post by ac29 » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 8:21 PM UTC

kop316 wrote: post #262

Buttons840 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure things are more complicated than you describe, but it seems like they fear increasing prices will lead to closing, and to avoid this they're... just going to close?

Sorry, should have been more specific! More correctly, they are debating if it's just time to retire now and be grandparents full time rather than risk losing a lot money in the restaurant due to increased prices, then being forced to retire. I assume "closing down the restaurant and retiring" means they will sell the restaurant (or at least the property), but I am not sure to be honest?

Would raising prices 5 or 10% be so catastrophic to revenue that they couldnt even give it a few weeks? Or are they looking at a 50%+ price increase?

If they want to retire anyways, then good for them. But a lot of businesses have had to raise prices this year, including grocers, which are arguably restaurants only competition. I think folks would understand.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#317

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 8:22 PM UTC

I've never worked harder than in restaurant work. It is the worst job with the worst people with unattainable expectations.

The only time it's worth it is if you don't care about walking out even in the middle of a shift.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#318

Post by bluGill » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 8:23 PM UTC

the-dude wrote: post #236

j7ake wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being able to be more efficient and pass down savings to low prices and higher worker wages seem like a good thing.

Until there is only Walmart and Amazon left.

It isn't hard to start a new business. There are a ton off niches that Walmart and Amazon don't server well. Find one and serve it, then use profits to expand into the much larger (though lower margin!) areas that Walmart or Amazon serve. Good luck - it is not easy to run a business.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#319

Post by stevejb » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 8:23 PM UTC

yepthatsreality wrote: post #4

The restaurant industry has known the solution for a long time but everyone wants to pretend it would be too difficult. Stop the tipping guilt trip placed on the public, raise your prices 20%, and pay your employees a livable wage. The public will still show up to eat in your restaurant.

Guilt trip? I have never felt this ever. I pay a tip proportional to the service. 10% bad, 15% average, 20-25% for very good.

As an American living in Australia, I really do miss tipping. I think that on average the restaurant service here is a lot lower. At most restaurants at the medium level (e.g. $25 hamburgers) you pay in advance, and then a waiter will bring the food to you when its ready. Do you need more water? Get it yourself... Ketchup, you have to ask but it won't be offered. The waiters don't care because they are making good money anyway. The only place you get American style service is at the very high end places.

Re: Restaurant workers quit at record rate

#320

Post by elliekelly » Tue, Jul 20, 2021, 8:24 PM UTC

daenz wrote: post #92

colinmhayes wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Restaurant work sucks, it's not tipping's fault. I don't work nearly as hard as a software developer compared to when I was a waiter or cook. Software development is lower stress most of the time too.

I knew someone who was mad at their partner because their partner was a software engineer and "didn't work as hard as they do" at a lower skill job, and yet made a lot more money. I'm not sure where this idea comes from that hard work is as valuable/more valuable than skilled work. But it seems to be a pervasive idea.

I suspect it comes from the “truism” that hard work pays off. It’s understandably frustrating for people when they inevitably realize it’s not as true as we were led to believe. A person can work like a dog their entire life and still be poor.