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Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

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Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#311

Post by astrognomy »

notJim wrote: post #198
Ccecil wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are. Coeur d'Alene, ID is at the top of the US for hottest real estate markets. Average housing cost increase of over 40% in the last year. [1] Boise and Eastern Idaho are seeing similar growth. [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/lakeside-idaho-city-is-americas...

But is that being driven by people moving from rural Oregon? I am skeptical.

Your right to be skeptical as it's not the case. It's being driven by individuals within Idaho moving to more urban parts of Idaho.

Locals say it's all "Californians," but that is just short hand for folks out of state but surveys and data from ITD (Idaho Transportation Department, i.e. DMV) show it's urbanization at work.

Granted there are folks moving to Idaho from outside of the state but they are the minority causing the influx to CDA and Boise.

Source: Local news, resident of Boise, and someone who is dismayed at the lack of housing in the area.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#312

Post by generalizations »

dumbfoundded wrote: post #90
tick_tock_tick wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean Oregon was founded as a white only state it's right in there constitution. > No free negro or mulatto not residing in this state at the time of the adoption of this constitution, shall come, reside or be within this state or hold any real estate, or make any contracts, or maintain any suit therein; and the legislative assembly shall provide by penal laws for the removal by public officers of all such negroes a…

The current racism in Oregon is certainly not something I want to understate but it's unfair to compare Oregon now to the deep South now. The whole of the United States was founded on slavery but a lot has changed. Not nearly as much as has changed in the South. For example, President Obama lost the national white vote 43% to 55% in 2008 (1). In 2008, more than 89% of the voters in Oregon were white and voted for Oba…

> The whole of the United States was founded on slavery

Citation needed. I'll be curious how you show that each state was "founded on" slavery, and how that was true from the inception of each of those states.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#313

Post by mensetmanusman »

joshka wrote: post #276
troutwine wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder whether there's any actual examples of the values being brought back from a point where they have disappeared. I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what you're saying here. Are you asking about examples of people that have been de-radicalized?

To be clearer - given Jones asserts that the reversal of satanists/globalists is good, are there examples of where such a reversal has had positive measurable effects on a society? I'm looking to understand perspectives opposite to my own here (as an atheist, non-American, liberal leaning person).

One common example is that religious cultures have a family culture that can propagates through time by having replacement levels of offspring.

So far, to date, every secular and atheistic culture tends towards inverting the demographic pyramid by having about half the required number of offspring to stabilize their culture/viewpoint through time.

This view assumes that there is any meaning to life, of course.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#314

Post by ModernMech »

buzzert wrote: post #271
joshka wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you do instead?

In my city (San Francisco), the Tenderloin is nationally famous for having an "open-air drug market", which means a place you can go to _buy_ drugs with impunity. It also happens to be one of the most dystopian parts of the city, rampent with crime, overdoses, unsanitary conditions, and needles everywhere. It seems like any rational person could see the connection between drugs and the dystopian aspects of the Tender…

> I would make it impossible for them to acquire drugs

But how? Drugs are already illegal. There is currently a vast government apparatus designed to make drugs impossible to acquire. The US has the largest prison population on the planet due in no small part to the war on drugs. It's not like we go easy on drugs.

And yet, in your city there is an "open-air drug market". Making drugs illegal doesn't make drugs harder to get, because drugs are profitable. To paraphrase Ian Malcom from Jurassic Park "drugs will find a way."

I think you're noticing a correlation and labeling it a causation. If people had a place to safely do drugs, would they be overdosing in the street? If SF had more public restrooms would people defecate in the streets? If the city had more affordable housing would people be living in the streets? If people had access to jobs so they could earn a living, would they be committing crimes? You blame the drugs for the problems, but I see them as a symptom of larger societal causes.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#315

Post by omni »

bsder wrote: post #302
not2b wrote: post #220

The US constitution requires that, for this to happen, Congress, the Oregon legislature, and the Idaho legislature must all agree. There's no provision that it is a matter that local country residents get to decide.

I don't see why Oregon would object unless there is some industry out there that is paying megabucks in taxes. Dumping a bunch of people sucking down more money than they pay seems like a win for Oregon. Idaho, on the other hand, might object. That would be comedy gold. "We secede." "Congratulations! Good luck finding somebody who wants you, though."

Well for one, House representatives are apportioned based on population.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#316

Post by andrei_says_ »

chmod600 wrote: post #308
mjevans wrote: post #35

Given the article's mention of Rural vs Urban I lean towards the belief that this is driven by a sense of both conservative values in government and probably a lack of understanding in how the government of the people serves the people. More precisely how taxes and math work. The GAO and similar offices should do a better job of preparing reports on where every collected tax dollar is being spent; both in the physica…

"Though I find understanding the deeply divided viewpoints in the US very elusive." It's not a big mystery. A lot of politicians are making their careers by dividing people. Some policies are just downright mean, and seem to serve little purpose other than division. Conservative/rural people are often on the receiving end, because they just don't have a large enough constituency to fight it. Sure, they are winning so…

What are some things that are too extreme? And what are they extreme in relationship to?

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#317

Post by _-david-_ »

yesBoot wrote: post #278
lostmsu wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if they are the majority?

Rule of law, not majority. It may look that way should “one side” or the other control an official political body, but at least for now, we still abide election laws insuring the “rule of law” bit.

I don't think anybody is saying thid should happen without following the law so I am not sure what your point is?

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#318

Post by [deleted] »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #15
dumbfoundded wrote: post #9

For reference, this is about 100K people of 4.2M in Oregon (1). The rural counties of Southern Oregon and Northern California have been proposing the state of Jefferson for a while now (2). From my experience living there for a few years, it's the most libertarian place I've ever seen. It's like Texas without the Christianity. People there generally support gay marriage, abortion, and cannabis legalization but also l…

It varies a lot. I spent some growing up years in Southern Oregon and there definitely was a strong evangelical, anti-gay marriage, anti-abortion etc. contingent in the town where I was. Lots of Birchers & KKK types as well. This was in the 70s and while the whole QAnon thing now is epistemlogically shocking, it seems like we had a lot of similar kinds of conspiracies running rampant in small southern Oregon towns ba…

[deleted]

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#319

Post by mensetmanusman »

_qwfv wrote: post #215
hackyhacky wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Haha, what? If Oregon is doing stuff, it's definitionally an American value and American Freedom, right? Who gets to decide what an "American *" is? Have you watched Fox News recently? They're very clear: "American" refers to their (conservative, older, rural) viewers; "anti-American" refers to everyone else. People believe this.

I know. I just... I keep hoping that by pointing out the obvious silliness of the phrase "American Values" that maybe, someone somewhere will read it and be like, "Huh, you know, maybe what I meant to say was, 'My values'...."

One interesting discussion point about American values it’s about whether it should be determined by the number of humans inside of American borders, or if it is just a birthright.

I support using satellite imagery to get a day by day census count to include tourists and everyone inside of America as part of the decision making and voting process to improve infrastructure at least.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#320

Post by _-david-_ »

nscalf wrote: post #260
lostmsu wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if they are the majority?

Then they would probably be winning elections on the state level instead of trying to redefine what the state is.

The person you were responding to in all likelihood meant majority of the rural / eastern part of the state not the entire state,
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