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Google can ban your Android app if they think you’ve clicked on your own ads

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Re: Google can ban your Android app if they think you’ve clicked on your own ads

#311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the bank will point to a specific transaction as the reason or a series of transactions to show a pattern. i.e., You've had 15 $9000 deposits over the last 15 weeks in what appears to be an attempt to avoid reporting to to the federal government.

No, I've worked a bit with banking fraud and money laundering, if we'll "fire" a customer, we won't provide any specifics. Pointing out specific behavior is appropriate if you want people to change that behavior. But in such cases we don't want them to start working differently, we want to stop doing business with them. We don't want them to create a new company and try to do the same thing more carefully and keep wi…

if a bank fire you, there a lots of other banks that provide the exact same service.

If google fire you, you can close your company and fire all your employees.

Re: Google can ban your Android app if they think you’ve clicked on your own ads

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you use separate accounts, Google can and has banned all associated accounts (including personal accounts) in the past.

What do you mean by associated accounts? How does Google know they are linked?

Idk how but it’s happened before - https://old.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/8kvias/tifu_by_gettin...

Re: Google can ban your Android app if they think you’ve clicked on your own ads

#313
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With the way the system is designed, it's trivial to game the system in such a way that your ad-supported competitors get purged from the play store. Its only a matter of time until people start abusing this heavily, if they don't already do so. But then Google will probably have to do something about it, if it gets out of hand.

It happened with SEO. People found a way to game their rankings by buying backlinks to their pages from spam sites. Google started punishing that behavior, so some have instead started buying backlinks for their competition to de-rank them.

Unfortunately,

- Unscrupulous players gather inorganic points/votes/followers/whatever to get ahead in a ranking system;

- Ranking system starts to detect inorganic stats and punish perpetrators;

- Unscrupulous players target inorganic stats at competitors instead;

is an all too common progression in any ranking system that can be gamed with input from third parties.

Re: Google can ban your Android app if they think you’ve clicked on your own ads

#314

Imagine this would be the case for physical stores and only 2 companies in the world could decide what products you are allowed to sell. You start a coffee shop and 1 day later a representative of company X walks in and shuts down your entire store because you "violated our conditions but we won't tell you which one. You can beg us to reopen your store but first you have to tell us why you didn't violate our policies…

Amazon and Walmart? If you’re trying to make a mass market product you may have to bend to their will. The reason laundry detergent went from being mostly water to “super concentrated” is actually Walmart. They said jump and manufacturers said how high?

https://corporate.walmart.com/newsroom/2008/05/29/wal-mart-c...

Re: Google can ban your Android app if they think you’ve clicked on your own ads

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not aware of any major business that publicizes this kind of information. Try going to your bank and ask them for details on how their anti-fraud system works. The problem here is this imperfect click fraud ban can ricochet into your app getting banned too.

But the bank will point to a specific transaction as the reason or a series of transactions to show a pattern. i.e., You've had 15 $9000 deposits over the last 15 weeks in what appears to be an attempt to avoid reporting to to the federal government.

Nah, if they suspect you of fraud they're barely allowed to talk to you outside of confirming your account has been suspended

Re: Google can ban your Android app if they think you’ve clicked on your own ads

#317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legit question: is there any other service/company on earth that bans you for having multiple accounts? This seems like an insanely restrictive policy. One of the defining characteristics of internet communication is that you can have a “work persona” and a “home persona” and maybe another one for your hobbies, another one for your porn browsing and gambling, another one for your aunts and uncles. To deny this basic,…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppetry It is also a common policy on many forums. And while I love complaining about policies and behavior of FB, Google, Amazon etc, this one makes sense. Almost always you ban person, not account - so standard is to allow one account or to require accounts to be clearly linked (for example, a separate bot account that is clearly declared).

Wikipedia's policy doesn't say you can't have multiple accounts, just that you can't misuse them.

Re: Google can ban your Android app if they think you’ve clicked on your own ads

#318

I just don't see how this can be legal. How can they be allowed to completely destroy a business with no evidence and no appeal process? This surely must class as abuse of a monopoly position. I guess the fact that they haven't been sued yet must be evidence that their terms are fairly tight but it feels like I've seen something that states that terms are only enforceable if they can be shown to be "reasonable" and i…

I agree, I think it's totally insane that we are allowing this to happen (and I'm most the liberal/free-market person I know). Google is literally one of the most profitable companies in the world. It could easily implement a fair, open and transparent appeals process if it wanted. It's choosing not to. That is a massive "fuck you" to everybody who has invested huge amounts of time and money to build businesses that…

> Google is literally one of the most profitable companies in the world. It could easily implement a fair, open and transparent appeals process if it wanted.

I'm not so sure. Google's business model is to take a slice of billions of small-value transactions, usually in ad-serving space, while using every bit of automation to minimize its employee-effort per transaction.

I suspect that implementing meaningful human review at the necessary scale would kill those operating margins. Fairly handling an appeal from an app with $10/month in ad revenue would take about the same amount of human time as one from an app with $10k/month in ad revenue.

This doesn't excuse the business model, but I think it goes a long way towards explaining it. As you note, the tail risk here is regulatory -- if a sufficiently powerful government cracks down, it could impose an even more onerous review process than Google would choose for itself, or legislatively rewrite terms-of-use to impose a fairness or good faith standard.

> Suing also isn't at good solution.

Leaving aside the access to justice issue, suing isn't currently a good solution because it's not obvious what right the victim has in tort. Google's terms of service will allow its behaviour, so you'd be left with more speculative actions like unlawful restraint of trade that might require explicit evidence of bad-faith intent.

Re: Google can ban your Android app if they think you’ve clicked on your own ads

#319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many content creators are starting to move to a Patreon+Twitch model, in addition to YouTube.

Works if you are only delivering live videos. I've never been able to get into Twitch because there is so much dead time without anything interesting happening. Patreon only works if you already have established fan base that is willing to pay for your content. It does not help with discoverability at all. Youtube is still the king of video no matter how you slice it.

Ah you know I am thinking of Vimeo I think. (The producers I follow upload only prerecorded material.) I guess that demonstrates how little brand recognition the YouTube competitors have :)

Re: Google can ban your Android app if they think you’ve clicked on your own ads

#320
post #35

I'd extend this even further: never use a single account for more than one purpose. Create a separate account at the same company for the other purpose. Some examples: - Every product/project you manage should be on a separate account on Google, Facebook, Amazon, etc. - Nothing tied to your consumer accounts should be used for anything business related. - Your Amazon shopping account and your AWS account should defin…

While I get what you are saying, this is sounding more and more like an abusive relationship. "Getting beaten by your husband? Try not being around him when he is drunk." At some point we have to face the reality that the tech ecosystem needs some serious fixing, for both consumers and developers.

It's likely not 'tech' but abusive customer interaction practises. Don't need tech for that, just an a-hole with an MBA.
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