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US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

bbc.co.uk

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Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#311

Post by Pyramus »

johnnyapol wrote: post #190
ceejayoz wrote: post #2

Six cases in seven million administered doses. One death. Meanwhile, hormonal birth control causes clots in 1/1,000 women. No one blinks an eye. The vaccine hesitancy this engenders is likely gonna kill more than that one person. https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1381936112311148548 > Public health bureaucrats have some weird habits in how they reason under uncertainty and how they communicate to the public. I…

I'm not saying your calculus is wrong but this does make an assumption that all clots are created equal and I don't believe that is the case. The specific issue being observed is "cerebral venous sinus thrombosis (CVST)" in combination with "low levels of blood platelets (thrombocytopenia)" per the Joint CDC and FDA statement (1). Low blood platelets means anti-clotting treatments can pose a substantial bleeding incr…

To add, from the German Federal Institute for Vaccines (regarding AZ not J&J):

> Birth control pills can also cause thrombosis. So why is there all the fuss about the COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca? > It is true that for birth control pills thromboses, even with fatal outcome, are known as a very rare side effect. They are listed in the Summary of Product Characteristics (SmPC). The birth control pill is available only on prescription. Every woman must be informed of this risk by the prescribing physician. For the COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca, there is currently a suspected very rare side effect of sinus vein thrombosis with accompanying platelet deficiency, sometimes fatal. It is not listed in the SmPC.

https://www.pei.de/EN/service/faq/coronavirus/faq-coronaviru...

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#312

Post by yboris »

Relevant tweet: https://twitter.com/robertwiblin/status/1381967753234411530

J&J doses delivered: 7 million.

Reported blood clotting events: 6.

Daily risk of dying of COVID19 in the US: 1 in 330,000.

CDC and FDA: Pause the J&J vaccine.

Draw your own conclusion on how aligned these folks are with your interests.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#313

Post by weakfish »

spazrunaway wrote: post #236
conistonwater wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, that doesn't sound quite right: the benefit of taking the vaccine goes not only to you, it's also to the people you would have otherwise infected by spreading the virus yourself.

Put your life on the line for the community, comrade! And sign away your right to legal recourse should you die as a result. You're on your own! You owe the community your life, and the community owes you nothing!

A 1 in a million chance is not nearly worth the FUD you're spreading, "comrade"

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#314

Post by base698 »

splithalf wrote: post #280
carnivalWilson wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bioengineer. Everyone that gives an answer mostly ignores epigenetics and the fact that RNA can permanently alter the _shape_ (or conformation) of how your DNA is tightly wound up. For example, RNA can direct methylation of DNA and alter histones, which can lead to transgenerational epigenetic effects on gene expression and phenotype [1]. The fact is, molecular cell biology is incredibly complex and the models…

Everything in life has potential epigenetic effects! Not sure what you are trying to communicate with your comment but it sounds like you are saying people should avoid the mRNA vax but then you also say “almost certainly no long term effects.” Your thesis seems to be that 10 years is enough time to know for sure that they are safe. Why is 10 years the right amount of time? Why not 50 years or 5? In other words what’…

50 would certainly cover all life stages of humans. I assume you could be sure with shorter.

I have an aviation, biochem, and skydiving background. My rule is for aviation: "if it hasn't been out five years you're a test jumper."

Humans are way more complex than airplanes. I personally wouldn't take the mRNA vaccine because of this rule. Coupled with being unable to sue or get help from the government I think people IN LOW RISK groups have been way too enthusiastic to sign up.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covid-vaccine-side-effects-c...

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#315

Post by strictnein »

spazrunaway wrote: post #236
conistonwater wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, that doesn't sound quite right: the benefit of taking the vaccine goes not only to you, it's also to the people you would have otherwise infected by spreading the virus yourself.

Put your life on the line for the community, comrade! And sign away your right to legal recourse should you die as a result. You're on your own! You owe the community your life, and the community owes you nothing!

In your weird argument you are somehow not part of the community.

Everyone else is doing the same thing you are, thus the community is giving you the same thing you're giving to the community.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#316

Post by UncleOxidant »

carnivalWilson wrote: post #246
laplacesdemon48 wrote: post #103

Both the AstraZeneca and J&J vaccines use an adenovirus to deliver DNA instead of mRNA wrapped in lipid (like Moderna & Pfizer). Everywhere I read about the J&J vaccine, I see something like "the DNA vaccine doesn't alter your DNA". Can somebody please clear this up? As far as I understand, the mRNA just stays in the cytoplasm of the cell and gets used up by the ribosome to create spike proteins. The adenovirus vecto…

I'm a bioengineer. Everyone that gives an answer mostly ignores epigenetics and the fact that RNA can permanently alter the _shape_ (or conformation) of how your DNA is tightly wound up. For example, RNA can direct methylation of DNA and alter histones, which can lead to transgenerational epigenetic effects on gene expression and phenotype [1]. The fact is, molecular cell biology is incredibly complex and the models…

Wouldn't catching the virus itself also have these epigentic effects?

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#317

Post by viklove »

Moto7451 wrote: post #287
viklove wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they are meaningfully different. For one, Pfizer and Moderna are mRNA vaccines, while J&J and AZ are not.

That’s not the difference the parent is asking about. He’s asking if the adenovirus based vaccines available are meaningfully different. Reaching beyond the parent’s words, both AstraZeneca and J&J have now had issues with blood clots. If it’s a similar formulation then perhaps you’ve found something and Adenovirus vaccines with a different formulation are unaffected. If they’re very different then perhaps other vari…

The mechanism of delivery isn't a meaningful difference? Okay, if you just want to ignore half of the equation be my guest.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#318

Post by _wldu »

xiphias2 wrote: post #213

Why didn't they stop the vaccinations in women under age of 60/65? I'm a 40 year old man, if I were a woman I wouldn't take J&J or AstraZeneca, but as I'm a man, I think it's worth to take the risk of the side effects of the vaccination.

I wonder why all the clot victims are 100% female with J&J?

Also, only 1/3 of Astra Zeneca clot victims are male:

https://news.yahoo.com/astra-zeneca-vaccine-blood-clot-risk-...

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#319

Post by Miner49er »

joelfolksy wrote: post #304
hn8788 wrote: post #91

So this past year the government has been willing to let unemployment, suicides and drug overdoses jump due to isolation and loneliness caused by lockdowns, child abuse to skyrocket and mental health to plumment due to schools being kept closed, all because we needed to stop covid at any cost. Now one person dies out of almost 7 million who received the vaccine, and we need to stop administering the J&J vaccine "out…

Suicides decreased in 2020, btw: https://www.axios.com/suicide-decreased-in-2020-pandemmic-me... .

Deaths of despair increased though:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/deaths-of-despair-during-c...

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#320

Post by billti »

carnivalWilson wrote: post #246
laplacesdemon48 wrote: post #103

Both the AstraZeneca and J&J vaccines use an adenovirus to deliver DNA instead of mRNA wrapped in lipid (like Moderna & Pfizer). Everywhere I read about the J&J vaccine, I see something like "the DNA vaccine doesn't alter your DNA". Can somebody please clear this up? As far as I understand, the mRNA just stays in the cytoplasm of the cell and gets used up by the ribosome to create spike proteins. The adenovirus vecto…

I'm a bioengineer. Everyone that gives an answer mostly ignores epigenetics and the fact that RNA can permanently alter the _shape_ (or conformation) of how your DNA is tightly wound up. For example, RNA can direct methylation of DNA and alter histones, which can lead to transgenerational epigenetic effects on gene expression and phenotype [1]. The fact is, molecular cell biology is incredibly complex and the models…

> we normally verify our educated guesses empirically

Love that quote! That's going to be my standard comment from now on when I see a pull request that doesn't include any test cases :-)

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