Live data from Hacker News

Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

theconversation.com

311–320 of 764 posts

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're minor investments practically, and major investments politically. As you say, for many motorists, giving up space on even some roads to cyclists is treated like some sort of war crime. There's very much of attitude of, "we can't just have a majority of the road space -- we need nearly all of it!"

It can be a real winner politically, depending on the electoral boundaries. Roads have such limited throughput that a new bike lane might inconvenience only a few hundred people in cars, while opening up the city to thousands of people on bikes. Once politicians figure out that calculation, it can go very quickly.

An issue in that "political favor" calculus is money:

A) Cars have a tall stack of interest groups with money to throw around politically. Manufacturers, Dealerships, Gas corporations. lobbying groups including, especially, but not limited to the AAA all have skin in the game and have thrown money at politics. (In general bicycle groups are rarely as organized, rarely have much in the way of profits or income to burn on political favors.)

B) Taxes. Today roads are partly paid for with gas taxes and sometimes vehicle property taxes. A lot of motorists feel so entitled to the roads simply because they see those tax numbers directly on their gas bills and vehicle registration fees and think that they own the roads because they feel like they have the receipts. (Nevermind that there is no state in the US that entirely pays for roads out of such taxes, and the "I paid for it, so I own it" fallacy seems to refuse to ever actually prorate its "ownership" against the actual small percentages any individual contributes to the total budget.)

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> City councils believe cycling is recreational, not for commuting or for "real" use. And nobody gives them a talking to? If any official said that here they would never live down the humiliation. They'd be the butt of every joke for weeks. Some societies appear to tolerate stupid ideas that I'd be afraid to say out loud. Or maybe nobody actually believes that. Is there actually someone from a city council or whoever…

There are hardly any active commuting cyclists in most cities, so no. Anyone who speaks up is outnumbered 50x by motorists who feel extremely entitled to never have to see a bike.

Don't forget the active recreational cyclists ("middle aged man in lycra", or MAMIL) who only cycle on the weekends. The city planner in the LA suburb I was referencing said that the councilmen were all weekend cyclists, so didn't see the need for bike lanes as a form of commuting.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#313
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Already happened. https://www.minnpost.com/cityscape/2020/12/after-major-upgra... - Thanks to “mill and overlay” repaving, the city and county have added short stretches of bike lanes on: Territorial Road, Larpenteur Avenue, Fairview Avenue, Arlington Avenue, Marshall Avenue, and Tedesco Street. Together these connect bike lane gaps around the city, including a few key bridges and dangerous intersections. - Ramsey Co…

That's fair, I know Minneapolis is one of the top cities for bike infrastructure in the US. Possibly the top city, at least for bigger cities. If you search "Minneapolis war on cars" you can definitely find some people complaining, though.

Even in the Bay Area, the Lincoln Ave road diet in Willow Glen (San Jose) was severely divided, and I considered the Bay Area to be way more bike friendly than other regions in America.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2015/06/16/san-jose-lincoln-aven...

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#314

Cycling is not only good for the environment, but for cities in general. During the last confinement, when car traffic completely stopped, I realised that cars are the single biggest reason why living in the city can be unpleasant. People may not realise it consciously, but when they move out of the city, what they are looking for is a place with not as much cars driving around. Cars destroy cities by making a viciou…

I look at European city centers where cars often times get thrown out now and: they don’t agree. Profits were way down even before COVID. Even if you offer people the option to not use their car, they will avoid it. No form of transportation will ever be as pleasant to use. Cars don’t make cities unpleasant, cities themselves are unpleasant. No matter if cars exist or not. Bikes, pedestrians and cars must be properly separated to make safe cities. Doing that would maybe convince a few people to take a bike.

Or we can go back as you described. Destroy the cities we have built and build small walkable towns. That would mean that you have no say in what your job will be, but your parents do. That’s over 100 year old concept that worked well back then and would probably work well if you built it up again. But with modern demands of “personal freedom” it’s impossible to build.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#315
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reads like you're someone who's never cycled in a city.

On the contrary, if you act like a car, using the same streets as the cars is quite safe in my experience. I've safely cycled with a cello on my back by simply following the rules most cyclists claim to follow but ignore: stopping at stop lights, signalling when I'm about to turn. You know, looking out for my own safety. EDIT: If following the same rules as everyone else is too much to ask, maybe you should just stay…

My near misses have never been at intersections or due to missing hand signals.

My near misses have been because some idiot decides to hug or even drive in the cycling lane (usually while texting) or when someone parks a car in the cycling lane forcing me to move into the road (with cars being incapable of waiting for me to get around the idiot that decided to park in the cycling lane).

Those are instances of following the road rules perfectly yet still nearly getting in a dangerous wreck.

It's not a problem of rules, it's a problem of cyclists not having safe places to cycle. It's a problem of cities not planning for cyclists. It's a problem of cities not enforcing rules that ultimately protect cycling.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#316
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Already happened. https://www.minnpost.com/cityscape/2020/12/after-major-upgra... - Thanks to “mill and overlay” repaving, the city and county have added short stretches of bike lanes on: Territorial Road, Larpenteur Avenue, Fairview Avenue, Arlington Avenue, Marshall Avenue, and Tedesco Street. Together these connect bike lane gaps around the city, including a few key bridges and dangerous intersections. - Ramsey Co…

That's fair, I know Minneapolis is one of the top cities for bike infrastructure in the US. Possibly the top city, at least for bigger cities. If you search "Minneapolis war on cars" you can definitely find some people complaining, though.

Since Portland and Seattle are 180 miles apart, it's probably fair to argue that Minneapolis-StPaul combined is the best or second best current bike metro in the country. Similar in population size to Seattle, bit bigger than Portland.

Does anyone have a good up to date source for miles of protected bike lane per city, thats been updated since last year?

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#317
post #84
post #69

There's a demonization of cyclists in general if you live in an American city. Until this stigma goes away, which will usher in infrastructure and mentality changes, this will not occur. City councils believe cycling is recreational, not for commuting or for "real" use. I mentioned this about getting my LA suburb to actually embrace Class II bike lanes previously, and there's simply no political will. Simply put, it'…

I would say there's a demonetization of everything these days where so many topics are full 'us vs them' tribal ordeals now.

Live and let live is a dead concept. Large cities kinda are the reason for that. Before, small towns had small communities with similar interests.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#318

That's great. Assuming the following: - Your commute is sufficiently short - You have facilities to shower and dress at work - You have sufficient time to shower and dress at work - You don't have to bring kids or sizable cargo - Weather is sufficiently good - You're sufficiently healthy

Long commutes are something most bike-enthusiasts want to fix too! That means more affordable housing, usually.

But I agree, weather and disability issues definitely require some kind of supplemental modes of transportation. Even then I’d rather we invested in public transportation instead of cars.

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#319
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't this actionable? We are currently making significant public and private investments into electric cars based on their reduced emissions. Why not also invest in cycling infrastructure (beyond the very limited capacity that most US cities are currently doing)?

Because most US cities are not compact and flat as Copenhagen

Millions numbers of people live in urbanized flat valleys in California (Oakland, San Jose, Redding, Sacramento, Fresno, Bakersfield, parts of LA/SGV/Inland Empire/OC).

Re: Cycling is more important than electric cars for reaching net-zero cities

#320
post #150
post #35

Switching from gas to electric is something I can do all on my own. Switching from gas car to cycling is something that would require major investments from my city and developers. Both are noble goals, but let's not let perfect be the enemy of good. Switch to electric now, and also encourage new roads and new developments to be bike friendly, so that switching to a bike is something that will be viable in 20 or 30 y…

But it doesn't require major investments. It's really minor investments compared to other infrastructure projects. The issue is taking away even a tiny fraction of car space basically triggers some kind of political road rage.

That's because there are so few people who bike. Around here it's probably 2 or 3% max (Austin) if that. Also drivers here are so aggressive towards bikes (and the USA in general) it's just not safe. Bikes really need dedicated routes as far away from cars as possible.
Post reply on HN