34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work • Hacker News Board

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#311

Post by nextlevelwizard » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 5:12 AM UTC

the_local_host wrote: post #161

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered that the reason why you aren't missing face-to-face meetings is because everyone is forced to do full time remote? My team is really dreading the move to back to office, but I couldn't be happier. I get the nudge I need in the mornings to hit the gym again, I get cheap and healthy food during lunch with no effort on my part. And I get to see and interact with people who don't work in my team and I…

It seems like you're anticipating a divergence (or at least communications gap) between the generally-in-office and generally-remote sets of employees. Have you considered that it might be the remote employees that are more productive? The benefits you've stated for in-office work are that you will be more likely to hit the gym, get low-cost healthy food, interact with random non-teammates, and meet in-person, none o…

Considering many people are working less hours since there is no monitoring and in general dicking around during the day (I have seen some people playing video games during the work day) I highly doubt in general remoting has increased any productivity.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#312

Post by nextlevelwizard » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 5:16 AM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #216

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered that the reason why you aren't missing face-to-face meetings is because everyone is forced to do full time remote? My team is really dreading the move to back to office, but I couldn't be happier. I get the nudge I need in the mornings to hit the gym again, I get cheap and healthy food during lunch with no effort on my part. And I get to see and interact with people who don't work in my team and I…

> My team is really dreading the move to back to office > the amount of time I sit in voice chat with the remote team memebers during the day will be close to zero on the days I am at the office. Can I be frank? This sounds like an incredibly selfish attitude to take. "If you're not like me, I have no intention of accommodating you."

Communication is 10x better when you are face-to-face and the tech to accommodate remoters is fickle and just unnecessary extra layer. If we can get decisions done faster by excluding remote people then thats what is going to happen.

And just the fact that if I am at the office people will come to my desk with their problems and the constant fiddling with headphones is annoying waste.

I don't get why everyone thinks those of us who want to go back to office are the selfish ones for not bending over backwards over the people who prefer to work remote as if we didn't sign up for this when we started to work.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#313

Post by mym1990 » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 5:22 AM UTC

Bedon292 wrote: post #228

mym1990 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While commuting is time-inefficient activity, if you let all 22 days a year disappear...thats on you. There are plenty of things to do in a car ride, train ride, bus ride, walk that are not 'poof, gone' uses of time.

If you are driving to work the most you can do during that drive is listen to a podcast, news, or book on tape. Stuff I can already do at home doing other things too. But have to deal with things like someone just cut you off, and now you just forgot what was happening and need to rewind. It is far from a productive time period. Without having to commute I have a lot more time to do things that are much more valuable…

I think most of the people missed my point. I didn't say commuting was a productive time, but it doesn't have to be a complete waste either. Sure, some days people are groggy or feel like zoning out on the commute, cool. But I feel like if 100% of the days are like that, and you actively complain about it...there is something that can change.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#314

Post by nextlevelwizard » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 5:26 AM UTC

pdimitar wrote: post #230

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered that the reason why you aren't missing face-to-face meetings is because everyone is forced to do full time remote? My team is really dreading the move to back to office, but I couldn't be happier. I get the nudge I need in the mornings to hit the gym again, I get cheap and healthy food during lunch with no effort on my part. And I get to see and interact with people who don't work in my team and I…

> I get the nudge I need in the mornings to hit the gym again, I get cheap and healthy food during lunch with no effort on my part. Let's clarify that this is strictly specific to you . I and several other colleagues I chat with started doing more exercise due to the pandemic.

Good for you, but as this whole discussion is about differences between people only time I can get my self to the gym is first thing in the morning before work. Which in turn means it is way easier to get dressed, get to gym, and then go to office when the office isn't at home. Now way easiest decision is to just snooze the alarm and continue sleeping until work starts whenever there is any obstacle in the way.

Same with food. If I just sit inside my house 24/7 with the lockdown I am way more likely to pour my energy in hobbies and other activities. There are no fancy food grocery delivery systems where I live, so only options are to go to grocery store or order food and before the decision was easy because the grocery store was on the way to work, so "I might as well" make the stop. Now I just work for 8 hours straight, feel hangry, order some shitty food, work 8 hours on side project and do the same.

Sure this is a personal problem as many here like to point out, but just remember that when you are left out of decision making since you aren't part of the office that will be your personal problem. If my employer decides to go fully remote it is fine that I have to find another place to work, I have no problems with that. I hope the remoters will view it the same way if things dont work out for them.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#315

Post by mym1990 » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 5:27 AM UTC

raziel2701 wrote: post #229

mym1990 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While commuting is time-inefficient activity, if you let all 22 days a year disappear...thats on you. There are plenty of things to do in a car ride, train ride, bus ride, walk that are not 'poof, gone' uses of time.

Nah let's fight for structural change instead of timidly complying and listening to podcasts while we become traffic and lose 22 days a year.

Also seems like you missed the point. I said nothing about the future of work and fighting or not fighting for different standards.

I'm glad you think that people who choose to listen to podcasts during transportation experiences are timidly complying with the world though, seems accurate.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#316

Post by mym1990 » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 5:44 AM UTC

throw14082020 wrote: post #236

mym1990 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While commuting is time-inefficient activity, if you let all 22 days a year disappear...thats on you. There are plenty of things to do in a car ride, train ride, bus ride, walk that are not 'poof, gone' uses of time.

Don't put the blame on them. There are plenty of reasons why it might suck: having to drive the car (and pay for it) to get to work, which also adds to the stress. Taking the train (depending on where you live) might also be uncomfortable: risk of dirt, disease, smell, and risk of assault when commuting home after working late. Cycling late at night might also increase the risk of accidents.

There are also plenty of reasons it might not suck too. A negative spin can be put on any situation, and I agree that not everyone has a posh commute in a nice car, or in a nice part of town, or on a nice rail line.

But the way I see it is that you have two choices: you can change the situation or you can change your outlook on it. Sometimes you can do the first one, but it doesn't always work out. At this point you should look to do the second one. If you don't do either, well I guess you can wait for a covid situation to do the changing for you.

Also, cycling absolutely increases the risk of accidents...doing almost anything at night increases the risk of something going wrong. I don't see how that point plays into anything. If my ride home is 30 minutes and I need to stay focused not to crash, then I ride attentively and consider it a workout. Yay I just worked out 22 extra days a year.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#317

Post by mym1990 » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 5:53 AM UTC

decafninja wrote: post #240

mym1990 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While commuting is time-inefficient activity, if you let all 22 days a year disappear...thats on you. There are plenty of things to do in a car ride, train ride, bus ride, walk that are not 'poof, gone' uses of time.

Usually that time is "spent" either on: 1. Catching up on lost sleep because I had to wake up early to waste that time on commuting to the office. 2. Being wasted from a tiring day at work and not in any mood to do anything "productive" on transit, which itself further adds to fatigue and exhaustion. As a bonus, you also get to roll the dice on whether you even get to sit. Whether it's 30 minutes or 90 minutes, holdi…

Yes, there are many people in situations where there is a constant domino effect of negative stressors that prevent being in a 'productive commuting mood'(having a baby for example, disorders, disabilities). But if you're in a perpetual state of exhaustion from mainly your job and 30 minutes on a train is putting you in the ground, I would go on a limb and say you're not just wasting the 22 days, you're wasting a whole lot more than that.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#318

Post by mym1990 » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 6:03 AM UTC

politician wrote: post #143

tezzer wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a software engineer. I can do my job 100% remotely. I can't wait to get back to the office. I like in-person collaboration, and I really like having separation between my work life and my home life. This year has been torture.

Do your colleagues feel the same way? Would you inflict office work on them if they don't?

You sound as if going into the office is literally some kind of torture(and I guess for some percentage of the population it is).

This 'do you colleagues feel the same way?' argument is circular and the question can be posed both ways. Separating the two to allow people a preference one way or the other is a difficult problem that has been addressed by many companies by simply making everyone come into the office. It may be that giving people the option one way or another is the right way forward, but getting to that point is going to be a long and windy road...

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#319

Post by mym1990 » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 6:06 AM UTC

mike_d wrote: post #269

tezzer wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a software engineer. I can do my job 100% remotely. I can't wait to get back to the office. I like in-person collaboration, and I really like having separation between my work life and my home life. This year has been torture.

> I like in-person collaboration This argument is rooted in a fondness for the way things used to be. I get it... I miss lunch with my coworkers and being able to spin around in my chair to ask someone a question. But are you really going to get that satisfaction when your coworker isn't in that chair, or your work friends want to have lunch alone because they have an immuno-compromised child at home?

Rooted in fondness according to who? Are you saying that someone that expresses an inclination for in-person collaboration is actually deceiving themselves into remembering the experiences differently than they actually were?

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#320

Post by mike_d » Thu, Apr 08, 2021, 6:27 AM UTC

mym1990 wrote: post #319

mike_d wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I like in-person collaboration This argument is rooted in a fondness for the way things used to be. I get it... I miss lunch with my coworkers and being able to spin around in my chair to ask someone a question. But are you really going to get that satisfaction when your coworker isn't in that chair, or your work friends want to have lunch alone because they have an immuno-compromised child at home?

Rooted in fondness according to who? Are you saying that someone that expresses an inclination for in-person collaboration is actually deceiving themselves into remembering the experiences differently than they actually were?

That person may be accurately remembering the experience they had in the before-times, however that world just doesn't exist anymore.