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Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

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Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's our duty as human beings to resist any normalization of remote working. Loneliness is a far worse problem in our society than commuting. We need to make sure everyone has a baseline level of social contact.

You can have social contact outside of work though. WFH gives people back time to explore hobbies, join clubs, meet people etc. The social contact you have at work often feels forced and artificial - you can choose your friends, your colleagues not so much.

Does wfh really give back time to people? From what I've seen with colleagues and friends, it mostly has led to longer working hours. The commute time and the time before dinner has been replaced by more work.

If you have been able to draw the line and log off at 5pm, good for you, but that's not the experience for a lot of people.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#313
post #262

Just in case you were operating under the illusion that tech giants are run by forward thinking executives who are immune to the usual politics and problems of corporate life. Nope, most of their exec layer is a bunch of people who cut their teeth the industry in the 90's, and are operating within a thick fog of local workplace politics. I guarantee that behind this move is an executive who believes that developers n…

Absolutely - in knowledge economy, insisting on physical presence is darn damn stupid. And I don't want to hang "with friends at work" I go to "work" that has to be specified clearly and that I expect to deliver with purely professional merit driven collaboration and not friendships and gangs. I have friends or would love to have friends out of the place where I work. I want strict compartmentalisation between work a…

You sound like a right bundle of fun to work with.

You should consider that among the things less conducive to team productivity and mental health are "the guy in the room" types who exhibit the same lack of interest in normal social interaction with their colleagues you are claiming here under the incorrect label "professionalism".

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#314
In my mind this past year of pandemic work from home hasn’t been an accurate depiction of normal (non-pandemic) work from home because of the forced isolation in the hours outside of work. It seems like the pendulum is swinging back too far too fast to in office work.

I like work from home and get to focus more effectively than the open office. I’m pretty deep on the introvert side of the scale and this pandemic has been too isolating for even me. Which is to say I don’t think work from home should be removed because most everyone is socially needy now. I’m looking forward to being with friends again. But I do not want to go back to working in the office. I’m hoping my work has max one required office day for meetings a week, but not more, and hopefully less.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hybrid model, let your workers decide how they work as long they deliver.

In a hybrid model the people who choose to be remote are damaging their own impact and career development. That's a tradeoff they're free to make if they want but it's the reason why I think hybrid models won't last for too long.

The reality is that most people don't grow in the same company. They grow by changing employer. So what you just said here, doesn't apply to most people anyway. The ones that most like the current structure are the ones most rewarded by it as well. No wonder they don't want it to change. Most people get promoted by social acts, even in google.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the thing, right. The problem isn't remote or office per se, it's the commute to and from the office that's the issue. I can definitely focus more at home, but I really miss my 30 minute bike commute.

>I really miss my 30 minute bike commute. I've seen this argument before, and I don't understand how working from home changes this honestly. Why not just start your day with a bike ride for leisure? Unbound by the location of your office you can now cycle to any arbitrary location. If you struggle to do it without a reason, perhaps cycle to a bakery or store and pickup some fresh food for the day.

> Why not just start your day with a bike ride for leisure? Unbound by the location of your office you can now cycle to any arbitrary location. If you struggle to do it without a reason, perhaps cycle to a bakery or store and pickup some fresh food for the day.

For me, it's a motivation issue. I had to go to work and had to cycle/walk there. Now, going out in the morning is optional. If I stayed up too late or if the weather is bad (it's almost always bad in Scotland) I'll make an excuse and not go out. After doing it a few times, I broke my morning habit and it's extremely difficult to force myself to go out.

I know it doesn't really make sense but that just adds to frustration. I hate that I cannot force myself to do daily exercise and it makes me feel like shit, creating a sort of feedback loop. I don't go out and do exercise because I feel like shit and I feel more shit because I don't exercise.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#317
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so I'm a bit surprised by these responses. Google is obviously a company that marketed itself majorly by their extensive offices with perks like free food, coffee, snacks, gyms, etc. Their office design, campus and related perks were always on the forefront of their pitch. I don't quite understand why you'd expect them to be on the forefront of WFH.

At the beginning of the pandemic, their policies seemed aligned with WFH. Surprising to hear the opposite so soon.

I think they were all lying about how they liked WFH?

They want employees in their cells.

Zuck has been buying up commercial space in SF a few weeks into this pandemic.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, remote working is still in its infancy and has a lot of potential for improvement. Office has maxed out and just bumps back and forth.

I don't think remote working is in its infancy, it's more a case of the scope has been changed the recent year or so. The benefits of remote work is mostly being able to focus and reducing the daily commute. However remote work never brings the same connection to your co-workers as being physically present in an office and in my opinion that is extremely important. I understand very well that those with long commutes…

> The benefits of remote work is mostly being able to focus and reducing the daily commute.

One of the reasons there's so much opposing views on WFH is that there are also other big benefits, that apply only to a subset of the population. Among those are, the ability to optimize your workspace for your own needs, and not having to have the "connection to your co-workers". For some of us[0], this can easily make 2-5x difference in terms of ability to focus and lowered stress.

The more universal, but less important and a bit controversial benefit of WFH in many occupations[1] is that you get to optimize your whole schedule - work and private - globally. E.g. you can take a break to run a personal errand in the middle of a work day, and then work a little longer, instead of desperately trying to batch up errands and take a day off in advance. This also reduces stress, and allows you to rescue even more free hours in your life, at no cost to productivity.

> I understand very well that those with long commutes like the work from home idea, most of the time it also enables them to have a nicer house/apartment than what would be available in the city.

Commute is a funny thing. Back in the day, my wife lived in a small town and worked in a different one, and her commute of 20km took less than my 4km commute in the big city, and that's using the tram system (which avoided most of the traffic jams).

The freedom to be anywhere is the important thing, though. It's not just about nice apartments, but also about being able to move closer to your partner's non-WFH workplace, or closer to extended family so your kids can see their grandparents more often, etc. I sometimes feel like an outlier here, but I'm planning to move back to a large city (different one than my employer is headquatered in, though!) - the costs of living will increase, but so will the access to benefits of modern civilization. Good cities are much more than work hubs.

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[0] - A subset of whom you could call "neurodiverse", but my current belief is that everyone's mind is different, and ones you'd call "neurotypical" are just good enough at hiding their peculiarities in the social context.

[1] - I.e. if your job does not require to actually be butt-in-seat for 8 hours a day, and your employer isn't of the abusive kind that decides to surveil you minute-by-minute anyway.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#319
post #292
post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, no, their primary concern is their own interest. A lot of politics gets much harder in remote work, and this is what these people are best at. It's not productivity, it's politics that is much harder to do when remote working.

You think that executives are forcing developers to come into the office so that they can play politics with their subordinates?

They don't play politics with their subordinates, they play politics with their peers and their superiors. Developers are "human resources" - resources are there to be exploited, not catered for.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#320
As what would be described as an aspergers person, I find offices full of people playing bizarre political and social games with each other that I don't have any particular interest in and the workplaces themselves to be extremely unproductive. I hate working in offices with people often appointed due to nepotism or just because they are like the person hiring, that I would rather be poor then work in them.

The entire concept of workplaces, how they are run, and what people do is created by the normal person and for the normal person. This is completely irrespective and often counter to what produces the best outcome. It is about the social needs of these people, not the needs of the product.

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