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Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

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Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#311

Post by greggman3 »

GeekyBear wrote: post #287
harry8 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The 30% cut was considered very good at the time." Let me fix this. There was a full range of views. Some considered the 30% cut to be good at the time, some didn't consider it much at all, some considered it to be a criminal abuse of market power. I remember commenting myself that microsoft would be crucified for attempting to tax everyone who wanted to write software for windows 30% of revenue. I don't recall anyo…

You want to talk about a criminal abuse of market power? Microsoft used to charge ridiculous fees for things as simple as submitting a patch for an XBox 360 game. >Double Fine's Tim Schaefer pegged the cost of submitting an Xbox 360 patch at $40,000 in an interview with Hookshot Inc. earlier this year. "We already owe Microsoft a LOT of money for the privilege of being on their platform," he said. "People often mista…

I don't know the specifics of Xbox and patches but I do know that in general, at least in the past, shipping a game on Playstation required thousands of hours of testing by Sony employees. They didn't take your word for it that your app worked. They ran it through a battery of manual testing. Examples, does it recover if someone turns off the power in the middle of saving a game. At that point the save game file may be corrupted. The game better at least boot and let the player start a new game and not just crash.

Other examples include checking all the text meets the platforms spec. It's says "DualShock Controller" not "Joypad". It's always Press ○╳□△ and in the correct color for that button, and responds to the region/system setting. For example that X = select in USA, and ○ = select in Japan

The point being that the game console owners don't just trust that your patch didn't break the rules of their technical requirements checklist. Someone actually has to check and it's not a small amount of work. Maybe $40k is too much but $0 is arguably too little

AFAIK, Apple and Google don't do this much. Certainly not to the same extent as Sony/Nintendo/XBox

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#312

Post by GekkePrutser »

One thing I noticed is that Google does not collect location and nearby MACs by default and Apple does. That's a pretty serious difference IMO. And one I didn't expect.

Some skips the device's own MAC but they already know that anyway as they manufactured it.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#313

Post by greggman3 »

MobileVet wrote: post #260
harry8 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The 30% cut was considered very good at the time." Let me fix this. There was a full range of views. Some considered the 30% cut to be good at the time, some didn't consider it much at all, some considered it to be a criminal abuse of market power. I remember commenting myself that microsoft would be crucified for attempting to tax everyone who wanted to write software for windows 30% of revenue. I don't recall anyo…

I have worked in mobile since 2004. How anyone felt about it is irrelevant. The fact is that 30% was far less than the carriers and Qualcomm were taking with their stores.

the iPhone is a PDA. There's 20 years of PDAs before iPhone. There was no price to put an app on my 1998 Windows CE PDA, nor my Sony Clie, nor my Dell Axim. Just install the software same as PC. The software vendors had the option to sell direct, go through a distributor, a publisher, various stores, etc..

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#314

Post by m463 »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #4

" Modern cars regularly send basic data about vehicle components, their safety status and service schedules to car manufacturers, and mobile phones work in very similar ways." -Google This is a beautiful quote because it is an example of one industry's bad behavior leading to another industry's bad behavior, upon which the first industry then users the second's similarity to justify themselves. Cars only started doin…

I wonder if they figured out the perfect "benign phrases" using a/b testing.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#315

Post by m463 »

heavyset_go wrote: post #117
AlexandrB wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be pedantic, but Steam was collecting its 30% long before the App Store opened. Thought maybe that was inspired by Apple's cut of music revenues in the iTunes Store.

I could walk into Best Buy and buy the game I want off the shelf. I have no such option if I want to buy an iOS app from a store or the developers themselves. Steam also don't engage in anti-competitive behavior and prevent billions of people from using alternative game distribution methods like Apple does. What we need is real competition in the mobile app distribution market to determine whether or not that 30% is…

On the other hand, steam will not stop collecting data about you if you ask.

GOG has much better policies.

For example, GOG sells some games that try to phone home. Many of these were games/franchises that did business with GOG, then were bought.

Take a look at the reviews for Kerbal Space Program, or Stellaris for some of the shenanigans that happened after a game was released.

But because their stance is no-drm and you can play all their games offline, you can block them and the game will still run.

There is no such stance with steam.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#316

Post by martimarkov »

clairity wrote: post #308
martimarkov wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea you can force them to have multiple markets on the phone but that doesn’t mean that they won’t be colluding again. Apple and Google can have their stores on both iOS and Android and still keep 30%. Also this would mean that you are killing off a feature to the end user (me in this case) where I actually like the walled garden as I don’t need to check and verify apps I download. I understand where you are coming f…

you'd still have the apple ios store so you wouldn't lose any of that walled garden if you prefer it.

Yea but if you have another store you kinda lose it. Anyone could get tricked to install/sideload an app or enable the other stores.

So in fact you’re be losing the walled experience

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#317

Post by memetomancer »

harry8 wrote: post #178
memetomancer wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying that you feel entitled to sell software on Apple's tightly controlled consumer devices?

I am stating, very clearly, that Apple have massive market power that they are abusing. This is known in economics circles as "market failure" and across the spectrum from Keynsians to Neo-classical economists is seen as a compelling case for regulation. Why are you implying I am saying something different to what I /said/.

I don't know much about "Neo-classical economist" circles, but you seemed to be saying something about comparisons to Valve's Steam product. Beyond that, it only seemed like you might be implying the entitlement to sell software on Apple's devices. You certainly didn't /said/ that "Apple have massive market power that they are abusing".

I thought my question was pretty straight forward, and it seems like your answer is full of deflection and vitriol. Fair enough- we're on an internet message board after all.

But I sure wish you'd draw the line somewhere. Do you feel entitled to sell software on Apple's platform or not? Do you feel equally entitled to sell software on my cable box? my car's dashboard? my thermostat?

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#318

Post by shp0ngle »

Google makes money by collecting data (and lately, cloud services), Apple makes money by selling hardware and putting huge margin on it. (And lately, cloud services.)

So it's all not surprising, really? Different business models lead to different outcomes.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#319

Post by framecowbird »

insert_coin wrote: post #230
harry8 wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think there was a range of views. And anyone who disagreed with your view had no skin in the game and so can be ignored. I disagree with that.

I know there was a range of views. I'm pointing out not all opinions have the same weight.

Oh, there were a range of opinions. It's just that some of them were wrong.
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