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Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

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Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#311

Post by throwaway3699 »

DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #283
analog31 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today, it's typing. I've seen the difference in kids. I think readability may be one issue, but perhaps even more important is that if writing is physically awkward and painful, it leads to writing fewer words and doing fewer edits. My own experience was that learning to type, thanks to getting interested in programming, was game changing. All I can say is that I could write lengthy essays and reports in a jiffy. Sti…

> Today, it's typing. Not for math, at least not for my kids. I was helping my son with his high school physics homework a few days ago, and IMO his poor handwriting was a genuine impediment to his mathematical problem-solving.

Layout is more important than handwriting for maths, no?

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#312

Post by viach »

FactCore wrote: post #233
viach wrote: post #155

Isn't this considered incorrect nowadays - to publicly generalize a superiority of a group of humans with dimension by race or gender?

I find your sentiment interesting, but we can't ignore a fact in favor of not hurting people's feelings. Of course, more research is always being done, so I'm sure in a few years a new research paper will come out and we will hear a different facts about a certain gender's academic performance. Then next big paper comes out and the cycle repeats. That's just my two cents anyways.

> but we can't ignore a fact in favor of not hurting people's feelings

This should be either a perfectly put sarcastic statement or a result of living in a sort of cultural isolation in the past decade.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#313

Post by zepto »

standardUser wrote: post #265
throwgender123 wrote: post #212

I've noticed throughout my life that negative outcomes that primarily affect females (math test scores, wage gap, etc) are Huge Problems That Demand Immediate Action, and negative outcomes that primarily affect males (language test scores, life expectancy gap) are just kind of how it is. I'm not bitching about it or pushing an agenda, but it's not subtle.

Generally speaking, the clearly oppressed and disadvantaged group is the one we focus on in terms of equity. Men are not, nor have they ever been, that group.

This is the problem with making it about sex or gender.

‘Men’ as a category may not be that group with respect to ‘Women’ as a category.

But there are a huge number of men who are in fact, just as disadvantaged as a huge number of women even if that number is marginally smaller.

There is no reason at all why those men’s problems should not be receiving the same attention that women’s problems are receiving, other than the framing as a response to oppression of groups.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#314

Post by hc-taway »

jacobolus wrote: post #292
mfenix wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the father of 6 years old twins (one boy, one girl) I agree with this 100%. My son needs more discipline than my daughter, he's more likely to get into trouble at school, he likes physical activities, etc. almost the opposite of his sister.

> son needs more discipline This does not seem like the right conclusion. More like "needs running around time and free play". Cf. e.g. https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/discipline-problem-solutio... https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/beyond-discipline-article/

Two of my kids (one a boy and one a girl) act absolutely nuts and "must" have something like ADHD... until you make sure they run around outside at least 4hrs a day, consistently. Then they're fine.

Unfortunately this is effectively impossible to achieve for 2-3 months every year, with school in session and short Winter days. They're in lower elementary school but I think their total recess time per day is only about 30-40 minutes, and much of the time they don't even get that because it's raining or too cold (pft, whatever, wear coats) or something else, and they have them watch a movie more often than not in those cases (nb. this is a "good" school district)

We have one other kid—a girl—who doesn't seem to need this to not "act wild".

The other trigger for "crazy" behavior seems to be when they're presented with unpleasant social situations and don't know how to deal with them. Like, say, being forced to be around kids who are mean to them. Gee, I wonder where that happens a whole bunch.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#315

Post by DC1350 »

endisneigh wrote: post #274
finder83 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the rules are to "sit still" and "be quiet", yes, probably so. Boys are diagnosed with ADHD at a rate of 12.9% vs 5.6% for girls [1]. I've heard many counselors and psychologists (in my counseling program) suggest that many cases are misdiagnosed. Sit in any classroom or ask any teacher who their problem children are, and they're almost always boys. They're louder, more violent, more likely to disobey, and have…

I don't disagree with any of your assertions, but it remains a mystery how women then are excluded from top jobs if they do better in middle school through college and are less likely to be diagnosed with something that would impair their job performance.

Young women now earn more than young men on average. Most high paying jobs go to people near the end of their career who are part of a different generation. I think it’s too early to know if young women are still discriminated against in the workplace.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#316

Post by nottorp »

Well yeah, I have a daughter who finished high school and I've observed:

- when I was in school I only cared about results for the subjects that interested me; otherwise i did just enough to pass - when she was in school she cared about high grades for all subjects

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#317

Post by whimsicalism »

standardUser wrote: post #291
firefoxd wrote: post #37

This is anecdotal but I'm sure many people are seen this increasingly. In the past 10 years on the job, I'm seeing more guys make jokes about how stupid they are. Every time they make a single mistake they say "oh my God, if my head wasn't attached to my shoulders..." Then it becomes a competition of who has done the dumbest thing. I know it's just being playful, but you rarely see the opposite. Turn the tables, I wa…

Women avoid saying such self-deprecating things because they already have a tougher time than men being listened to, taken seriously, promoted, etc. Not that there aren't exceptions, but most women are acutely aware of how they act and are perceived at work because they start off at a disadvantage. I imagine few men ever think "will my gender get in the way of my ideas, or my work relationships or my career trajector…

Don't know why the pretty obvious explanation for why this sort of thing is common is downvoted.

Even if you're some weirdo who thinks there is no gender discrimination in the workplace, you can't deny that many women at least perceive there to be gender discrimination, and one of the tips passed around is to stop self-deprecating yourself in front of your colleagues.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#318

Post by 908B64B197 »

throwaway53086 wrote: post #31

Anyone with young boys and girls will notice that girls are much more likely to obey rules and instructions. A lot of doing well in school is about following rules and instructions, and it seems pretty natural that girls will do better. Also, most teachers are women. I haven't checked, but I'd assume most school administrators are women. It seems natural that they'd construct a system that's more suited for females t…

With shrinking recess time and PE disappearing from some schools, I also wonder if a lot of this is caused by boys having more energy and needing more movement than girls. Energy has to go somewhere so it ends up manifesting itself in behaviors that are deemed "disruptive" (really, not sitting still and being unable to concentrate on tasks).

Maybe it's something that female administrators and teachers fail to understand.

It would also explain the current epidemic of ADHD and especially ADHD medication prescribed to young boys.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#319

Post by finder83 »

endisneigh wrote: post #274
finder83 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the rules are to "sit still" and "be quiet", yes, probably so. Boys are diagnosed with ADHD at a rate of 12.9% vs 5.6% for girls [1]. I've heard many counselors and psychologists (in my counseling program) suggest that many cases are misdiagnosed. Sit in any classroom or ask any teacher who their problem children are, and they're almost always boys. They're louder, more violent, more likely to disobey, and have…

I don't disagree with any of your assertions, but it remains a mystery how women then are excluded from top jobs if they do better in middle school through college and are less likely to be diagnosed with something that would impair their job performance.

I don't think it's simple enough to give a single answer to or to be able to answer entirely (and I'm not an expert at all), but I think there's a lot of factors...sexism, the competition at the top level and the natural aggressiveness of men, rewarding aggression in business, the negative view of babies and women with families in culture (again, sexism).

Honestly though...I think one of the biggest factors is that success in school does not predict success in a job. The traits rewarded in school do not correlate to the traits rewarded in high-competition jobs. Being quiet, listening, doing your work on time, not challenging the status quo, parroting things that teachers want you to, not challenging others...none of those things are traits you think of when you think of CEOs. Not that I think that aggressiveness necessarily SHOULD be what we're rewarding as a culture, but when the only goal is profits...it's hard to think that those things make a top company.

I'll probably get down-voted for mentioning him (and that's fine, I don't care), but Jordan Peterson has some really fascinating talks about personality traits between men and women and why personality traits in men lend toward more aggressiveness which is rewarded in competitive business.

Re: Girls perform better academically in almost all countries (2015)

#320

Post by 908B64B197 »

hc-taway wrote: post #314
jacobolus wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> son needs more discipline This does not seem like the right conclusion. More like "needs running around time and free play". Cf. e.g. https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/discipline-problem-solutio... https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/beyond-discipline-article/

Two of my kids (one a boy and one a girl) act absolutely nuts and "must" have something like ADHD... until you make sure they run around outside at least 4hrs a day, consistently. Then they're fine. Unfortunately this is effectively impossible to achieve for 2-3 months every year, with school in session and short Winter days. They're in lower elementary school but I think their total recess time per day is only about…

Sounds they would need partial work from home during the winter.
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