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Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

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311–320 of 434 posts

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#311
post #20

This is an outrage. It is also a perfect example of how software is used to create increasingly more elaborate and faceless bureaucracies that force individuals to spend more and more time contending with them. Somehow software has become the ultimate vehicle for bureaucratic violence. Software is simultaneously infallible and the perfect scapegoat. The inmate who lost their phone privileges for 30 days is an example…

You might like this https://www.berglas.org/Articles/ImportantThatSoftwareFails/...

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the issues is that laws are made on paper and then everyone needs to figure out how to map it to software. Instead, laws should be codified in software and legal APIs should be binding. This would do wonders for efficiency, but also force laws to be cleaned up, be consistent, simple and logical.

So the government writes up a spec for how the legalese should map to code that engineers then implement? How is that different from what happens now?

Only the programmed end result in code would be legally binding. Lawmakers would have a big interst in making sure the code is correct and provide incentives/change procedures accordingly.

The inmates in this article would be released immediately after the code-law is implemented; you could apply new tax laws (i.e. as a config file) to your accounting software.

Why maintain an obfuscated legal text when you need it in software anyway?

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#313

Wow. I know firsthand from family how this can severely destroy someone's mental health in what may not be so obvious; it is extremely heavy on someone every moment past the first hour they go past their release time, then the first day followed by a variety of things that will then be taken advantage of by other inmate and guards while one's defenses are down. The fun poked at by other jealous inmates and cruel guar…

If a prisoner knows he's past his release date, can't he contact his lawyer?

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#314

When I wanted to have compiled [1] financials, PriceWaterhouseCoopers told me to pick a recognized accounting system, then change the company's business processes to match that. They said absolutely not to go the other way, to try to customize any software to match our business. I think about that every time I read about another government (or private!) company that wastes tens or hundreds of million of dollars (or e…

This appears to me to be a terrible idea. In effect you would have private companies writing the laws of the land. "I'm sorry California you can't change your laws because it doesn't fit into the three options we have available at our preferred software vendor". Seems like the tail wagging the dog.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#315

With prison incentives being what they are, it’s hard not to think that it’s beneficial for the profession to hold on to inmates longer.

Don't ascribe to malice... The dates and sentences can change so many times it's surprisingly hard to calculate. I've watched people who try earnestly to get the dates right complain about how hard it is.

is there a version of this that says "Dont ascribe to incompetence what is more likely caused by greed"? I'm tired of seeing comments like this that imply that any accusation of greed or malice is unfounded when in todays world, particularly in an industry like private prisons, greed is often the most likely cause.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#316

Wow. I know firsthand from family how this can severely destroy someone's mental health in what may not be so obvious; it is extremely heavy on someone every moment past the first hour they go past their release time, then the first day followed by a variety of things that will then be taken advantage of by other inmate and guards while one's defenses are down. The fun poked at by other jealous inmates and cruel guar…

If a prisoner knows he's past his release date, can't he contact his lawyer?

Depends on if the computer has taken away phone privileges. I suppose a good lawyer would already know the release date and take action without being contacted? But I have no idea.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#317

Wow. I know firsthand from family how this can severely destroy someone's mental health in what may not be so obvious; it is extremely heavy on someone every moment past the first hour they go past their release time, then the first day followed by a variety of things that will then be taken advantage of by other inmate and guards while one's defenses are down. The fun poked at by other jealous inmates and cruel guar…

If a prisoner knows he's past his release date, can't he contact his lawyer?

I'm worried this question might get written off. I would actually like to know the answer to this as well.

My immediate reaction is that either (1) it is possible, and the story is therefore more nuanced that might appear at first glance, or (2) it is not possible, and this is an even more egregious problem.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#318
post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People working at prisons have no incentive to be kind or instill any kind of humanity in their actions, thus I would expect having them go through their list of prisoners and determine when prisoners should be released to have just as cynical a result as relying on broken software.

This is a matter of administrating the law. If they're unwilling to do their job, they shouldn't have that job.

I am skeptical if the law has anything to do with the people employed in the day-to-day operations of the US prison system.

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#319

When I wanted to have compiled [1] financials, PriceWaterhouseCoopers told me to pick a recognized accounting system, then change the company's business processes to match that. They said absolutely not to go the other way, to try to customize any software to match our business. I think about that every time I read about another government (or private!) company that wastes tens or hundreds of million of dollars (or e…

This appears to me to be a terrible idea. In effect you would have private companies writing the laws of the land. "I'm sorry California you can't change your laws because it doesn't fit into the three options we have available at our preferred software vendor". Seems like the tail wagging the dog.

Login.gov cribbed off of the UK’s digital office that built a similar system. I believe that’s what OP was alluding too.

How many unemployment systems, prisoner tracking systems, DMV systems do you need? These are common components across governments.

Example: Login.gov now supports local and state government partners. Your constituent IAM needs can now be met by a federal team that is efficient and competent, instead of every city and state reinventing the wheel (poorly and in expensively).

Re: Whistleblowers: Software keeping inmates in Arizona prisons beyond release dates

#320
Could something like this be fixed by leveraging the existing incentives? Something like if an inmate challenges the output of the system then they will automatically be released in, say, 90 days unless the output of the system can be validated manually, perhaps by a third party?

Suddenly there is an incentive to create a verifiable and correct system on the part of the prison-industrial complex itself.

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