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McKinsey to pay $573M to settle claims over opioid crisis role: source

reuters.com

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Re: McKinsey to pay $573M to settle claims over opioid crisis role: source

#311

Post by Maarten88 »

jankyxenon wrote: post #217
Maarten88 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a discussion on the experiments by Stanley Milgram about obedience to authority, and it applies here. When a consultant gets hired for advise or to "get stuff done", and the result of this is massive profits with a secondary effect of death and destruction, then the consultant is (i.m.o.) morally responsible for that second part as well. And, it seems, legally as well (but let me guess nobody goes to jail).…

Are Instagram engineers partly responsible for depression among teens?

Asking the question is answering it.

Re: McKinsey to pay $573M to settle claims over opioid crisis role: source

#312

Post by chiefalchemist »

This is going to sound heavy-handed but what they did was terroristic. It undermined individuals, families, and the social fabric. It's not a passing event but an endless altering of fulfilling lives.

The dollar amount might feel impressive. But keep in mind the actual employees who contributed to the "turbochargeing" aren't paying that, and they are still walking the streets.

I can't imagine how this is Justice, or even justice.

Re: McKinsey to pay $573M to settle claims over opioid crisis role: source

#313

Post by RangerScience »

beaconstudios wrote: post #300
maybelsyrup wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the extent that telling you all this story was an attempt to humanize these guys and "whitewash" their behavior (it wasn't), I have some bad news for you: they're human. It does nothing against evil to pretend that the world is composed of a small number of monsters and the rest of us good ones. I'm the first one to agree with you: consulting - hell, fundamental aspects of capitalism itself - are deeply cynical an…

The problem is a systemic one - people respond to structural incentives. We can't get a better world by insisting that people rely entirely on their moral compass to resist strong incentives - we need to change the incentives themselves. Every time we say "those people are just evil" instead of "how can we adjust our social structures so moral crime doesn't pay", we strip ourselves of the only real path forwards. "pe…

Firefly quote comes to mind: "They'll swing back to the belief that they can make people... better."

Re: McKinsey to pay $573M to settle claims over opioid crisis role: source

#314

Post by ridaj »

haltingproblem wrote: post #284
maybelsyrup wrote: post #280

One of my first jobs out of college was at small management consulting firm founded by an formerly very high level McKinsey guy. In a bigger firm, I wouldn't have had much contact with this person, but since we were tiny, he would often be out in the field with the junior people. One week I found myself with him in some faraway city. We were a bit lost (this was before smartphones) and late for our next appointment.…

While amusing, this attempts to humanize them and somewhat whitewash their abominable actions. They are sitting at the top of the power matrix making lives miserable and dangerous for the ones with least power - paycheck to paycheck workers, those with addictions, inmates in Rikers, dissidents. The fact that they are aware of their own lack of usefulness makes the whole enterprise even more cynical and shady.

Hate the game, don't hate the player

Re: McKinsey to pay $573M to settle claims over opioid crisis role: source

#315

Post by krrishd »

hindsightbias wrote: post #296
maybelsyrup wrote: post #280

One of my first jobs out of college was at small management consulting firm founded by an formerly very high level McKinsey guy. In a bigger firm, I wouldn't have had much contact with this person, but since we were tiny, he would often be out in the field with the junior people. One week I found myself with him in some faraway city. We were a bit lost (this was before smartphones) and late for our next appointment.…

> when the plague comes It might have helped to have some mgmt consultants on vaccine distribution.

Not management consultants specifically, but I get the vague sense that it'd go not too different from this Deloitte situation: https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/01/30/1017086/cdc-44-m...

Re: McKinsey to pay $573M to settle claims over opioid crisis role: source

#316

Post by andrewon »

Failure of free market mechanism?

McKinsey optimized the business strategy to maximize profit. The strategy is locally optimal but a net negative at society scale.

I always puzzle why some economists oppose the basic idea of regulating drugs. Layman like us won't have the prior knowledge to tell the difference between snake oil and effective treatment. Drug maker won't have the incentive to conduct expensive randomized trials. Are we going to tell by reading Amazon reviews?

Re: McKinsey to pay $573M to settle claims over opioid crisis role: source

#317

Post by josho »

frankbreetz wrote: post #88
sharkweek wrote: post #10

The absolutely most fascinating part of this is learning how McKinsey has long argued that making recommendations that businesses may or may not act on does not create legal liability (until this). I’m trying to see that argument applied in any other instance and it becomes totally ridiculous. “You see, your honor, I merely suggested to my client that he kill his neighbor in order to take his land, I didn’t think he’…

>>As part of the settlement, McKinsey admits to no wrongdoing. https://www.npr.org/2021/02/04/963864747/consulting-giant-mc...

We should do away with settling out of court without a statement of who is at fault. The court could reject the settlement if the core issue of the case is not addressed.

By way of analogy this is why it’s a needed change. Applying settlements to criminal law I could murder you, and settle the case for some dollar amount and not have to admit guilt.

In short settling out of court is a way for the wealthy to avoid meaningful penalties.

Re: McKinsey to pay $573M to settle claims over opioid crisis role: source

#318

Post by klmadfejno »

trhway wrote: post #266
jancsika wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether this is a bona fide comment or a troll, I love this comment: * quick witted aikido-move-of-a-sentence to accept OP's insult, thereby disarming it * enormous paragraph made up of short, frank, vague sentences with an compelling rhythm of overarching claims that frame the 20-something haircut's ostensible work in a positive light. It's the wrong generation but I'm reading them in Ari Fleischer's no-nonsense, et…

>the many troubling associations McKinsey has had with shithole companies. not only shithole companies. At the total service of shithole governments: "McKinsey Bans Moscow Staff From Attending Pro-Navalny Protest ... In line with policy, McKinsey employees must not support any political activity either publicly or privately. This ban does include posts in social media featuring your political views or your attitude t…

That message was genuine, but quickly retracted and apologized for. That's not a real policy.

Re: McKinsey to pay $573M to settle claims over opioid crisis role: source

#319

Post by ghufran_syed »

ves wrote: post #179
klmadfejno wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I'm glad you enjoyed my prose so much. All I'm trying to convey is that my day to day is listening to client problems, looking at data, talking to employees, and presenting findings. It's neither a conspiracy, nor a scheme, nor a world of wealthy indulgence. I make a healthy wage, but its likely lower than I could get in tech. Like almost every company in the world, its a normal company.

> Like almost every company in the world, its a normal company. This in a thread about McKinsey settling for over half a billion dollars over its role in causing the opioid crisis, which is just one of the many, many arrows in McKinsey’s “aiding and abetting horrible shit” quiver. This was literally a conspiracy and a scheme. On just the basis of “harm caused” alone, McKinsey is far from a normal company.

I’m a physician, the biggest culprit in the opioid crisis is the government. They are the ones that started telling doctors that “pain is the fifth vital sign”. They are the ones that said they would pay doctors based on results of patient surveys - it turns out that addicts wanting opiates from doctors give you bad scores if you don’t give them what they want. And that has nothing to do with capitalism - more the opposite, it shows how good intentions together with the overwhelming force of the government can ruin people’s lives. So maybe we shouldn’t be so quick to encourage the use of government power in those cases where we agree with the political party using that power?

To everyone in this thread who has this overwhelming righteousness indignation about mckinsey - have any of you ever asked your elected representative about their view of the government’s responsibility for the opiate crisis? Would you ever vote differently based on the answers they give? Did any of the state attorney generals who are going after private companies ever do anything to stop the (federal) government encouraging the increased use of pain medication?

This is a classic example of unintended consequences by the government - the companies were just responding to the incentives the government created.

Re: McKinsey to pay $573M to settle claims over opioid crisis role: source

#320

Post by Closi »

leafmeal wrote: post #301
maybelsyrup wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To the extent that telling you all this story was an attempt to humanize these guys and "whitewash" their behavior (it wasn't), I have some bad news for you: they're human. It does nothing against evil to pretend that the world is composed of a small number of monsters and the rest of us good ones. I'm the first one to agree with you: consulting - hell, fundamental aspects of capitalism itself - are deeply cynical an…

Are people downvoting you because they don't want to humanize someone they hate? Or am I missing something?

I’m downvoting it because it paints all management consultants with a broad brush of ‘being evil’ which clearly isn’t accurate.

> While amusing, this attempts to humanize them and somewhat whitewash their abominable actions.

Ouch - I’m a supply chain consultant (only one shade away!) is the implication that I am less than human and totally spineless? I know management consultants and most of them do in fact have a spine and are just trying to help companies work better.

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