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18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

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Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#311

Post by [deleted] »

Aunche wrote: post #254
worker767424 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fauci was never dishonest TheStreet asked him "why weren't we told to wear masks in the beginning?" > Well, the reason for that is that we were concerned the public health community, and many people were saying this, were concerned that it was at a time when personal protective equipment, including the N95 masks and the surgical masks, were in very short supply. And we wanted to make sure that the people namely, th…

> he said (paraphrased) so the general public doesn't go out and buy them, causing a shortage How is that dishonest? He was completely transparent about this motivation from the start, as shown from my clip from the earlier interview.

[deleted]

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#312

Post by tpoacher »

worker767424 wrote: post #246
Aunche wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fauci was never dishonest. That was Trump trying to shift the blame to him. Watch the original clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRa6t_e7dgI&feature=youtu.be He literally said that the reason he is advising against masks was because he was worried about shortages.

> Fauci was never dishonest TheStreet asked him "why weren't we told to wear masks in the beginning?" > Well, the reason for that is that we were concerned the public health community, and many people were saying this, were concerned that it was at a time when personal protective equipment, including the N95 masks and the surgical masks, were in very short supply. And we wanted to make sure that the people namely, th…

There's 'dishonest' and there's 'diplomatic'.

Another example, when Trump (like him or not) pretended to be best pals with Kim Jon Un, he was being diplomatic. CNN accused him of being dishonest and called for him to announce publicly to his country that "actually I'm lying".

Was he 'lying'? Yes. Should he have told the truth to Kim Jon Un's face for the sake of 'honesty' and destroy all the diplomatic progress he had made at a time when KJU was flaunting his nukes? Maybe. Probably not.

Back to Fauci. Was he 'lying'? Yes. If he had told people 'masks work and will save your lives but health professional lives are more important' would that have had the same effect? Maybe. Probably not.

Also, since we love our fallacies in this place. Accusing someone of being dishonest for no good reason is effectively a variant of the outcome fallacy (judging the quality of an argument/action based on knowing the eventual outcome, rather than judging whether it was a reasonable course of action given what was known at the time). We simply do not know had Fauci been 'honest' whether the death toll would be halved or doubled right now. We can only speculate.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#313

Post by kuschku »

pelasaco wrote: post #309
kuschku wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Schleswig-Holstein, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern and Rheinland-Pfalz are already at 3%. Here’s a neat list with details: https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/info/Corona-Impfungen-Aktuell...

because we paid already for an unlimited arcgis license, we have an arcgis dashboard for that too: https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/db557289b13c42e4ac3...

It’s hilarious how by default the map includes all of Austria, but not even all of Germany (half of Schleswig-Holstein is missing in the default zoom/pan on first load).

Shows the priorities of the developers, lol

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#314

Post by DrBazza »

umvi wrote: post #3

At what number can we stop wearing masks, stop social distancing, start dining in, etc.? That's the number I care about. Because until somebody influential picks that number, we'll just keep masking and social distancing until the end of time.

In a pragmatic, level headed world, we could stop wearing masks once everyone above the age of 50 or so is vaccinated, as the risk of death and hospitalization for under 50s is dramatically lower, to the point where death by anything else is significantly higher.

In the shrill world of the media, point-scoring politicians, and people that believe we live in some kind of movie world where we can save everyone from everything, probably when everyone is vaccinated.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#315

Post by gruturo »

rmk wrote: post #129
AndrewBissell wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inflicting on all children the certain damage of social isolation, screen learning, and further economic precarity, to avoid theoretical and undemonstrated long-term effects (of a perhaps serious but not crippling nature) to a small percentage of them, does not strike me as societal wisdom in any way. Also, do you know what else has unknown long-term effects in children?

I'm not arguing that children should be kept out of in-person school. In fact, I'm against it, and was against it even when the pandemic was raging last year. I agree with you that children have been silent victims of schoolteachers' refusal to do in-person school. I do, however, strongly support reasonable precautions including masking and physical distancing, which can be achieved with children (not very young chil…

> I agree with you that children have been silent victims of schoolteachers' refusal to do in-person school

What should a schoolteacher do then, die? I'm not going to ask them to do that.

They should be put in one of the top priority categories for vaccination, and THEN we can expect them to go in classrooms (but we shouldn't be doing that anyway unless all kids are also vaccinated - otherwise they will keep the virus in circulation. They tend to have extremely mild or completely asymptomatic cases, but they DO catch it and spread it further)

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#316

Post by tim333 »

superkuh wrote: post #26
umvi wrote: post #3

At what number can we stop wearing masks, stop social distancing, start dining in, etc.? That's the number I care about. Because until somebody influential picks that number, we'll just keep masking and social distancing until the end of time.

It's not clear yet if arm injected vaccines will provide mucosal immunity. They'll prevent serious disease but epithelial cells in the nose, mouth, and so on can still be infected and shed virus. It's the same for flu vaccines. There are nasal vaccines which do provide mucosal immunity like flumist but during heavy flu seasons only the old and young have access. So, even if you're the required 2 months post vaccinate…

Hopefully we'll get some data on to what extent vaccinated people can still spread virus. I hope not too much.

There's at least one nasal covid vaccine on the way https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavirus-outbreak/story/india-n...

Apparently it works very well in monkeys. "We have completed studies on monkeys. It demonstrates 100 per cent sterilising ability."

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#317

Post by votepaunchy »

graeme wrote: post #295
midasuni wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No evidence that the vaccine stops spread, or even slows it down. It improves outcomes, so hospitals won’t be overloaded. Israel is over 40% on first dose and should have interesting reault sun the next month or two.

This is the new “we have no evidence masks help” or “no evidence of asymptomatic spread”. Name a vaccine that doesn’t reduce onward transmission even as it cures disease. It’s overwhelmingly likely that the vaccine will slow transmission and foolish to throw our priors in the garbage bin. What we don’t know yet is how much onward transmission will be reduced.

Name a disease where the measure of infection is a PCR test with a 40+ cycle threshold.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#318

Post by steerablesafe »

anovikov wrote: post #276
swarnie_ wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1.8% is pretty good compared to the rest of the EU right? I'm still not sure why a lot of countries started so late or so slowly. Still, like a lot of things, the last 20% is magnitudes harder then the first 20%. Finishing vaccination programs will come down to how well each government can educate their populist. I fear this is where America will fall down.

I believe in the end of the day, it will be directly or indirectly forced. Like, people who were not vaccinated will be fined, or later, detained if they are caught leaving their homes. I just see no other way around it, or pandemic never stops in most countries.

Yes, Hungary will introduce "vaccine passport" (vakcinaútlevél) cards to be exempt from curfew for example.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#319

Post by jcims »

kfrzcode wrote: post #176
jcims wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no expert but I'll share what I've learned so far, YMMV. >Can someone help me understand the difference between this and other vaccines? Here are the traditional vaccine types: https://www.vaccines.gov/basics/types COVID-19 vaccines are all (to my knowledge) a new type called an 'mRNA vaccine' - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different... These are basically the same as the 'subunit' type of v…

Cool, so the spike protein "factory" creates facsimiles of the actual SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, which then becomes a trigger to the immune system to create antibodies for that specific virus/spike protein combo. The mRNA approach to vaccines seems to be a leaner, meaner, 2.0 version wherein instead of injecting a virus ut totum the vaccine-development-wizards have developed it to use just enough of the original virus…

It’s broader than that actually, this is a generalized protein factory.

This is how mRNA is created by the cells in your body to create the proteins needed to keep you alive (aka transcription): https://youtu.be/SMtWvDbfHLo

This is how mRNA is then used to create proteins, either from strands manufactured by your own cells, those coming from viruses that have infected your body, or from mRNA vaccines (aka translation): https://youtu.be/TfYf_rPWUdY

Not directly related, but here is an amazing video showing how HIV infection works, including parts you will now recognize from the above: https://vimeo.com/260291607

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#320

Post by oezi »

DrBazza wrote: post #314
umvi wrote: post #3

At what number can we stop wearing masks, stop social distancing, start dining in, etc.? That's the number I care about. Because until somebody influential picks that number, we'll just keep masking and social distancing until the end of time.

In a pragmatic, level headed world, we could stop wearing masks once everyone above the age of 50 or so is vaccinated, as the risk of death and hospitalization for under 50s is dramatically lower, to the point where death by anything else is significantly higher. In the shrill world of the media, point-scoring politicians, and people that believe we live in some kind of movie world where we can save everyone from eve…

Two points: - Long covid also affects younger people (1-2%), so we might not want stop wearing masks until the case numberes have fallen to less than 5 per 100.000 per week. - we might not want risking that the virus mutates, so we shouldn't use infections amoung the young to get back to normal.

Also if your media perception is shrill world then you might want to change your perceptions/media channels.

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