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Intel CEO Bob Swan to step down, VMware CEO Pat Gelsinger to replace him

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Re: Intel CEO Bob Swan to step down, VMware CEO Pat Gelsinger to replace him

#311

Here's a fun fact (and I suspect shows what a loser I am :-)) Pat Gelsinger and I were colleagues at Intel in the early 80's. We both worked in what was called "MIPO" (Microprocessor Operation) but I was in Systems Validation and he was on the customer facing side with field engineering. My career went off through a variety of engineering roles, his went into management and up. When he joined EMC, I told him I had al…

I see a remarkable number of people who have good personal experiences with Pat but I've got this concern.

Intel's technical failure with 10nm has gone hand-in-hand with financial success with 14nm. That is, without 10nm chips on the market in a meaningful way they've been able to raise prices for 14nm parts -- Intel put up better financial numbers than ever in a time when it has not been investing in future success.

VMWare was a big thing in 1998 but it was obsolete by the time Pat got involved -- a hypervisor is naturally part of the kernel and there is no way cloud providers are going to spend their margin on VMWare. Yes, many people in business are terrified of open source software and want a proprietary product so they have somebody to sue (VMWare) or they need somebody to hold their hand (Pivotal.) Either way, VMWare and Pivotal are units that can be merged and spun off whenever a company based in Texas (Dell) or Massachusetts (EMC) wants to look like it has a presence in San Francisco -- you see the vmware logo on CNBC every morning and somebody thinks the king is on the throne and a pound is worth a pound but that doesn't mean anything in the trenches.

Like Intel in the past 10 years, VMWare is entirely based on a harvesting business model. In the short term Intel made profits by pandering to cloud providers; but in the long term cloud providers invested their profits in better chips. (What if Southwest Airlines had developed a 737 replacement designed from the ground up for a low cost airline?)

Pat might be able to keep the game of soaking enterprise customers going for longer, but someday the enterprise customers will be running ARM and the clients will be running ARM and the coders will be thinking "did they add all of those AMX registers just to put dead space on the die to make it easier to cool?" and falling in love again with AVR8.

Re: Intel CEO Bob Swan to step down, VMware CEO Pat Gelsinger to replace him

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find this kind of credentialism a bit silly to be honest I can understand this opinion, but surely the most intensely silly credential is a credential you granted yourself?

I don't know. It's the "appeal to authority" that makes it silly in my eyes. It's sort of the opposite of the scientific mindset, and that bothers me. Stallman or Franklin calling themselves "Doctor" I can definitely live with.

[deleted]

Re: Intel CEO Bob Swan to step down, VMware CEO Pat Gelsinger to replace him

#313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's just too late to turn them around" is pretty much what people said about Apple when Steve Jobs returned, though (in fact, it's more or less what I thought as well). As Adam Smith said, "there is a great deal of ruin in a nation", and likewise, big companies generally get more opportunities to reinvent themselves than one would expect.

How often do big companies like Apple and Intel succeed in righting a sinking ship though? You can’t keep pointing to the one guy that succeeded.

> How often do big companies like Apple and Intel succeed in righting a sinking ship though? You can’t keep pointing to the one guy that succeeded.

I feel like the view of Intel as a "sinking ship" is an inside-basebally misread of the situation.

If you buy a PC or a laptop or a server today, you're most likely getting an Intel CPU. It's now at least possible to buy AMD in many market segments from major vendors - and of course many of us do - but to the broader consumer and hosting world Intel still dominates.

You can look ahead and extrapolate and say "they can't compete with TSMC right now, and maybe they're going to start falling behind further." Fair analysis. But they dominate the market to an extent that's hard to overstate.

Contrast this with between-Jobs-stints Apple, which was a tiny shrinking company with a niche product and no clear strategy.

Intel is almost in too-big-to-fail territory. They aren't sinking, just because they now have real competition. Yes, they need to do "something" to maintain dominance - but why would you see their situation and conclude they won't? The new CEO here is a sign that they see the trouble ahead, and they're ready to steer around it.

Re: Intel CEO Bob Swan to step down, VMware CEO Pat Gelsinger to replace him

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are vastly underestimating the revolution of what the M1 represents to the PC industry.

I think you are vastly underestimating how hard IT departments will kick you if you request or bring a device that cannot properly execute the company-critical legacy Windows x64 software. Like SAP, for example. (SAP is the largest non-American software company by revenue and does business management, workflow automation, and bookkeeping) My prediction is that outside of hipster startups, M1 will have no effect on bu…

I’ve used (and developed software for, and helped administer) SAP from my Mac on and off for 20 years. Tends to be easier these days now that everything is mobile and web.

A lot bigger companies than “Hipster startups” use Macs, this tends to start with the C-suite and people follow suit.

My point also wasn’t that everyone was going to switch to Mac. It was that M1 proves you can build a “better in every way” PC with an ARM architecture. Linux ARM is also being pushed by AWS heavily from the server side with impressive price/performance numbers.

Windows ARM has been failing for many years, but I suspect this is going to change. Microsoft has a talented virtualization group, where the HyperV roots go back to the Connectix Virtual PC team that built PPC/x86 emulation for the Mac. I suspect they can pull off something like Rosetta - they just need a chipmaker to collaborate with. Might even be Intel! Pat Gelsinger is an outside of the box thinker.

You remind me of folks that thought the iPhone / iPad would have no impact on Blackberry sales, as real businesses need keyboards.

Re: Intel CEO Bob Swan to step down, VMware CEO Pat Gelsinger to replace him

#315

Here's a fun fact (and I suspect shows what a loser I am :-)) Pat Gelsinger and I were colleagues at Intel in the early 80's. We both worked in what was called "MIPO" (Microprocessor Operation) but I was in Systems Validation and he was on the customer facing side with field engineering. My career went off through a variety of engineering roles, his went into management and up. When he joined EMC, I told him I had al…

I see a remarkable number of people who have good personal experiences with Pat but I've got this concern. Intel's technical failure with 10nm has gone hand-in-hand with financial success with 14nm. That is, without 10nm chips on the market in a meaningful way they've been able to raise prices for 14nm parts -- Intel put up better financial numbers than ever in a time when it has not been investing in future success.…

Speaking as an ex-Pivot (but only for myself), a couple of thoughts:

- VMware grew almost 2.5x under Pat. Obviously their core franchise is about harvesting, but new adjacent products like NSX and VSAN helped a lot with growth. They just took a long time to get traction given the customer base, who don’t like change. VMware Cloud on AWS has been surprisingly strong even to skeptics like myself.

On the other hand, companies would get rid of VMware if they could, and they tried and failed with OpenStack. The hypervisor is commodity, but the overall compute/network/storage private cloud system isn’t trivial. Turns out “holding hands” whether by software or services is pretty valuable?

Public cloud of course is a substitute, though private clouds and data centres have survived and thrived as well (for now).

- Pivotal had a boutique software and services model that would be difficult to scale as a public company given the current shifts in the enterprise fashion away from productivity-at-any-cost (PaaS and serverless) and towards perceived low cost building blocks (Kubernetes and its ecosystem).

But it would be an gross oversimplification to suggest this was merely a vanity project for EMC and Dell. It took in $500m+ annually on open source software (and another $300m in services), which is no small feat, though still minuscule given what surrounds it. But anything new has to start somewhere. Not enough to impact the mothership’s balance sheets, but there was something special there that could be nurtured. Whether it can be, or whether the differences matter enough is anyone’s guess.

Pat could take Intel in a direction we don’t anticipate. VMware was written off for dead when Pat came on but he managed to buy it another 10-15 years and at peak a doubling of the stock price. He’s probably learned from that.

Re: Intel CEO Bob Swan to step down, VMware CEO Pat Gelsinger to replace him

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re right, there’s nothing to restrict them except inertia and that they haven’t done it so far when the writing is on the wall. There’s also the coordination problem with windows and third parties. Without vertical integration and tight OS support they’ll fall behind. Something will have to give, but the future doesn’t look good.

The reason that AMD didn't release their ARM design I think is that they know it is better to only have to compete with Intel than being one of the many ARM designs.

That reasoning is a mistake.

It's like train companies thinking they shouldn't compete with cars because they're in the train business (without realizing they’re actually in the transportation business).

AMD is in the chip business, not the x86 business - and x86 just became a whole lot less relevant for the future.

Re: Intel CEO Bob Swan to step down, VMware CEO Pat Gelsinger to replace him

#317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason that AMD didn't release their ARM design I think is that they know it is better to only have to compete with Intel than being one of the many ARM designs.

I'm sure amd could make a monster arm chip but without an oem who would put it in a laptop or desktop and without killer arm apps for windows whats the point?

I think this is why they're in trouble.

Apple has the vertical integration to do it properly. Amazon and Microsoft have the server cloud computing to do it server side.

Without proper coordination from Microsoft, third party OEMs, and AMD they'll all fall behind on computing on end devices.

I think that's part of the reason AMD/Intel will be less relevant, the incentives and market moves don't look good for them.

Re: Intel CEO Bob Swan to step down, VMware CEO Pat Gelsinger to replace him

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Spectre and related vulnerabilities are directly comparable to the 737 MAX debacle, insofar as they reflect poor engineering decisions made directly against the customer in favor of short-term profit. Of course Boeing’s decision was far more devastating and led to the loss of 346 souls, but the pathology that gave rise to both situations (executive hubris, failure to tackle accumulated tech debt) seems quite…

Workarounds for Meltdown and Spectre can impose a nontrivial performance hit for certain workloads, but it's tough to compare a 20-month grounding of 737 Max with patched security vulnerabilities that the average consumer neither understands nor directly observes.

Why not? Obviously the outcome of Boeing’s decision directly led to many deaths, and I am explicitly not trying to compare the two on result. However, the corporate actions which created these two scenarios are quite similar and I think it’s useful to compare them, since we’ll definitely see it again and again in the modern business world.

Re: Intel CEO Bob Swan to step down, VMware CEO Pat Gelsinger to replace him

#319

Here's a fun fact (and I suspect shows what a loser I am :-)) Pat Gelsinger and I were colleagues at Intel in the early 80's. We both worked in what was called "MIPO" (Microprocessor Operation) but I was in Systems Validation and he was on the customer facing side with field engineering. My career went off through a variety of engineering roles, his went into management and up. When he joined EMC, I told him I had al…

> There are a lot of things you can say about Silicon Valley, but one of the more interesting aspects of it for me has been how "small" it is in terms of people have an oversized impact. I have never been one of those people of course, just a part of the entourage. But it has been interesting to watch and learn from folks who are good (and bad) role models. I believe this is what you feel when you come to the industr…

A sociologist I met described it as the "generation effect" which is that people live in a cohort of other people about their same age +/-10 years. Throughout one's life the composition of the cohort changes as you begin to specialize starting with college/first job and continuing if you focus on a particular area (for me it has been systems analysis).

This effect can drive people to over-pay to go to "good schools" or work for less than they think they should be paid at the "good places to work" because it lets them join a cohort with members who are statistically more likely to be "successful" (for some arbitrary definition of success). I personally never paid much attention to it but thought about it when talking with this person.

I know from experience that it happens in Silicon Valley that someone will say, "Oh I know someone at some previous company who is really good at that, let me see if they would be willing to change jobs." That is why companies pay people bonuses for "referrals."

I suspect it happens in LA in the entertainment industry as well. If you watch the old American television series "ER"[1]. Produced by Steven Spielberg's Amblin Entertainment production company, it is amazing to see people who were on that show first as guest actors and then show up later in series.

[1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108757/

Re: Intel CEO Bob Swan to step down, VMware CEO Pat Gelsinger to replace him

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a remarkable number of people who have good personal experiences with Pat but I've got this concern. Intel's technical failure with 10nm has gone hand-in-hand with financial success with 14nm. That is, without 10nm chips on the market in a meaningful way they've been able to raise prices for 14nm parts -- Intel put up better financial numbers than ever in a time when it has not been investing in future success.…

Speaking as an ex-Pivot (but only for myself), a couple of thoughts: - VMware grew almost 2.5x under Pat. Obviously their core franchise is about harvesting, but new adjacent products like NSX and VSAN helped a lot with growth. They just took a long time to get traction given the customer base, who don’t like change. VMware Cloud on AWS has been surprisingly strong even to skeptics like myself. On the other hand, com…

This is spot on. And I think the TL;DR of the hypervisor argument goes as follows:

Hypervisor is a commodity, however management and support of hundreds or thousands of them is not. You can either pay people to support them and fix the software when it breaks or you can pay . Given the former requires expertise and planning it's often more cost effective to go the latter.

Disclaimer: I'm employed by VMware (less than 1 year) and chose to come here based on pivots I feel they are making.

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