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Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

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Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#311

Post by Dylan16807 »

anamax wrote: post #268
chrisaycock wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And not to mention: * Healthcare - Health insurance is often a luxury in America. The elderly have Medicare, but there is (currently) no safety for most citizens. * Public transportation - Many US cities don't have adequate bus service. Just anyone who lives outside NYC or a college town will need a car.

> The elderly have Medicare, but there is (currently) no safety for most citizens. Actually, there is, it's called medicaid. What? You make too much to be eligible for medicaid? That tells us that you don't need the safety net that it provides. And, even without medicaid, it's possible to get free health care for fundamentals in the US. No, "free" doesn't cover everything, but no healthcare system does.

Medicaid doesn't cover you unless you are disabled or have children. It's not a very good safety net.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#312

Post by steauengeglase »

chrismealy wrote: post #15

Nobody has mentioned the obvious: weak unions.

I have a feeling that there is a bit more to it than that.

In America it is fairly common for employers tack on a little more vacation time every year for both salary and hourly employees. It isn't too terribly odd to have 1 to 1.5 months off a year after working for someone for 5 to 10 years, but Americans seldom stay at the same job for very long. Either you go off for greener pastures, quit out of frustration, get laid off or simply resign because they fear that prospective employers won't hire you because you stayed at one place for too long.

Deep down, I think we have a serious fear of being considered lazy by our peers.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#313

Post by camiller »

gcb wrote: post #301
camiller wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the fact that at the end of 20 years of paying a mortgage I own a piece of property while at the end of 20 years of paying rent I own nothing.

and now you own a place with one bedroom, that can be sold for 2/3 (if you are lucky) of the price you paid in full for the mortage. if you spent the same in rent, you would have lived in a 2-3 bedroom for 20 years, moving every time you changed jobs 20yrs is a LOT of time to be living in the same place you can afford downpayment when you are 20yr old. and a LOT of time to work/study on the same area

Well, it's a three bedroom, 2 1/2 bath with a two car garage. I've been in it since '93 Just after I turned 27. I'm the first owner. Original as built price ~$85,000. I'm not on the either coast and property prices were, and still are, a lot lower here. Last appraised value ~$122,000 (appraised 5 years ago), and similar sized homes in the same neighborhood are currently going for ~$135,000+. I'm in a nice neighborhood with relativly low crime compared to other parts of the city. In the intervening 18 years I have changed jobs once and stayed in the same city, and the new job is closer to home. I did refinance once to shave 2% off my interest rate so it will be another 7 years till it's paid off. Yes, mortgage interest does add up, but when you are renting an apartment you are basically paying the landlords mortgage interest anyway. If I did need to sell to move for a job I'd be able to roll the proceeds into the new home and have a much smaller, shorter mortgage to begin with. If I had rented for the same time period I would not have any built up equity. It would hurt to sell though, this house has seen me get married and gain two children. There are a lot of memories here.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#314

Post by camiller »

dmm wrote: post #304
camiller wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the fact that at the end of 20 years of paying a mortgage I own a piece of property while at the end of 20 years of paying rent I own nothing.

And at the end of that 20 years you own a piece of property. Or you could take that down payment and invest it. Will that property appreciate more than the return you can get for your money? Don't forget about property taxes too. Renting gives you greater mobility too, which can be used to maximize income.

Also don't forget the home mortgage deduction on the income tax, which once you are itemizing opens the door to a whole host of other deductions. My effective federal tax rate this year was 4.6%, back when I was renting I could not have accomplished that.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#315

Post by umjames »

zdw wrote: post #205
orijing wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That really makes me think though: If they chucked redundancy out the window, that makes you the only person who can do a business critical task. Shouldn't that give you enormous leverage to negotiate with your employer? It often takes a lot of time and effort to get someone new up to your level. If they can't afford another couple weeks of vacation for you (in exchange for you staying on board instead of having to b…

Replacement cost is often quite high for any employee, even someone working a basic job, as training is expensive. Thus why many employers don't do training other than the bare minimum - why train someone who might use the training to go elsewhere. This is the "keep them dumb and stupid" approach to employee retention.

Meanwhile, the employer keeps a bunch of "dumb and stupid" employees that they refuse to make better. Those employees that are self-starters will make themselves better and, if they want to, will leave anyway.

Seems kind of silly to me. If your better employees regularly leave your company, than you probably have more deeply-rooted organizational problems that need fixing.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#316

Post by thomasgerbe »

david927 wrote: post #264
thomasgerbe wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"No, they simply have public transit -- it's not great by any means. You often have to supplement with taxi in both places." Citation needed. 99.9% of the time I was lived in NY, I used public transit instead of taxis. London and France? Underground stops running close to one and so anytime I tried staying out late I needed to walk, take a night bus, or hail a cab (which is near impossible on a Friday night).

I think you should more carefully choose your battles: It's really no contest. Bart closes at midnight and has four stops in the heart of SF. NY has an OK metro but if you want to go cross-town, better just walk. I've spent time in NYC and lived in SF, Zurich, Berlin, Prague and London. Europe destroys on this topic. A huge percentage of people in Europe, like myself, don't own cars simply because we don't have to.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Saying it's no contest is a huge exaggeration. I won't argue that BART/MUNI is better than other transit systems, but I still get around without a car.

That said, the fact that transit closes in London and Paris while New York doesn't is a major advantage. It's actually precisely the reason why I have been able to not take a taxi or have to walk home in the early morning. And in NYC, a lot of people don't own cars because they don't have to either.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#317

Post by dhughes »

afterburner wrote: post #243
dhughes wrote: post #87

It's no better in Canada the usual vacation time is two weeks with that increasing to three after maybe five years then after ten years it may go to four weeks but that's it it's extremely rare to see more than five weeks. The years of service are calculated for full-time positions so if you worked at a company part-time for five years and then became full-time only then does the clock start to tick towards more vaca…

Actually several sources show Canada is better than the US, although how much better depends on the source. This one below paints the rosiest picture I've seen for Canada, I've seen others show as few as 19 (for average) while show 14 for the US (same as below): http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922052.html

That seems bizarre, any job I've ever had or anyone I know get two weeks vacation.

Anyone you ask wouldn't get any more than two weeks and self-employed seasonal workers such as farmers and fishermen may not get any vacation.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#318

Post by pstack »

After seven years with my company, I was finally earning the highest amount of vacation hours per pay check, up to 15 days per year. In my fifteen year career, as an adult, I've never taken a vacation and I don't really have any interest in doing so. I currently have about 300 hours of vacation banked. I'm at the limit, so unless I use some of that time, I won't earn any more. That's okay, because . . . I don't have any use for a vacation. I don't use sick days, either (I know a lot of people use their three or five allotted sick days from their company as personal time).

I guess if I was digging ditches for a living, I'd want all the paid vacations I could possibly have. However, I work with computers and technology for a living and I love computers and technology. So . . you know . . . why would I want to take time off from doing something I enjoy?

Not to mention, after I die, nobody is going to remember me fondly for the vacations I took, so I could sit in the sun and cook my skin next to a chlorinated pool in another country. They're going to remember me for any work ethic, personality, and accomplishments I had.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#319

Post by jquery »

mahyarm wrote: post #281
chrisaycock wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And not to mention: * Healthcare - Health insurance is often a luxury in America. The elderly have Medicare, but there is (currently) no safety for most citizens. * Public transportation - Many US cities don't have adequate bus service. Just anyone who lives outside NYC or a college town will need a car.

Seeing how caltrain is pretty much a once an hour service (23 service runs per weekday) made me realize unless you live in downtown SF or any other area of the US where car usage is extremely painful, you pretty much need a car if you want to get out of your neighborhood.

Once an hour is fine. What do you need to do that's so urgent that you can't plan ahead more than 45 minutes?

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#320

Post by pdubroy »

camiller wrote: post #313
gcb wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and now you own a place with one bedroom, that can be sold for 2/3 (if you are lucky) of the price you paid in full for the mortage. if you spent the same in rent, you would have lived in a 2-3 bedroom for 20 years, moving every time you changed jobs 20yrs is a LOT of time to be living in the same place you can afford downpayment when you are 20yr old. and a LOT of time to work/study on the same area

Well, it's a three bedroom, 2 1/2 bath with a two car garage. I've been in it since '93 Just after I turned 27. I'm the first owner. Original as built price ~$85,000. I'm not on the either coast and property prices were, and still are, a lot lower here. Last appraised value ~$122,000 (appraised 5 years ago), and similar sized homes in the same neighborhood are currently going for ~$135,000+. I'm in a nice neighborhoo…

I'm not sure that really proves your point. You've made about 2.8% annually over 13 years, not including your borrowing cost, agent fees, etc.

On the other hand, the S&P 500 returned 8.25% annually between 1993-2006. Say you put 10% down ($8500) and spend $800/year total on taxes, repairs, etc. (probably low). If you'd invested in an index fund, you'd have made $42,000.

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