Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

ibtimes.sg

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

311–320 of 371 posts

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#311

Post by programmertote »

pessimizer wrote: post #293
reaperducer wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Radio free Asia has deep ties to US agencies. "Deep ties to US agencies" is sensationalizing the facts. It's part of the United States government, and nobody has ever tried to keep that secret. Not RFA, not the U.S. Government. Nobody. "Deep ties" makes it seem like it's trying to be covert. It's not. It isn’t really a credible source. It's one of the more credible sources of news in Asia. Especially for more authori…

> "Deep ties to US agencies" is sensationalizing the facts. It's not sensationalizing the facts, it's minimizing the facts. It's a pure propaganda project meant to manipulate public opinion outside of the US. It's the Asian version of Radio Marti, or Radio Free Europe. Funded by the U.S. taxpayers, run by the U.S. government, to improve the image of the U.S. in the world, to strengthen friendly governments and to wea…

You're right. I commented here a few times about how I grew up with my parents who are avid listeners to RFA, VOA, DVB, and BBC (channel specific to my country). Since we have military dictatorship back then, we trusted RFA, VOA more than our government's TV channels. I left for college in the US and learned who are feeding the news for VOA, RFA, DVB and where they are getting funding from, then I realized they are not that reliable news sources (and can be regarded as propaganda machines for people with vested interests).

If one listens to VOA/RFA in my country, one would think that the US is a shining utopia and did nothing wrong in Iraq/Afghan invasions (9/11 just happened a few years before I left the country).

The truth is that there is no objective news outlet in the world (even 'facts' fed to the unsuspecting reporters/journalists are dubitable).

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#312

Post by hobofan »

jonathannat wrote: post #242
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>advanced semiconductor or airplane engine... Not to disagree, but I believe it's just a matter of time. They're working hard in these areas. Also, recent stats I read somewhere say Chinese Ph.D.'s are returning to China in increasing numbers these days, somewhere around 50% or more compared to the old days when the majority stayed in America or Europe.

there's also alot more chinese students studying abroad, compared to the old days. The creme of the crop stays, and the rest goes back.

Do they actually have the freedom to decide to leave China?

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#313

Post by pas »

eternalban wrote: post #220
notJim wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it better for Chinese billionaires to run the country than the CCP? Seems like just trading one master for another.

Jack Ma is a member of the Communist Party of China. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-alibaba-jack-ma-idUSKCN1N... This is a classic power struggle between ideological and technocratic elements. Jack Ma vs Xi Jinping. Jack Ma, a communist party member, challenged party Chairman. As we can dispense with the notion that Jack Ma lacks the necessary wits, the actual interesting question is why did Jack Ma think it oppo…

There are 91 million members of the CCP. In a country that counts more than 1 billion inhabitants. It's laughably far from representative.

But the actual rubber stamper voting group is about 3000 people.

However, since there was never any real independent and strong opposition (the Kuomintang retreated to Taiwan) the only power struggles were very much about succession, and again that's like a minor clash in a royal family, whoever wins, it's still feudalism.

... yes, you said that Jack Ma is a CCP member, but he was nowhere near close enough to Xi in any aspect to challenge him. He's a useful idiot who got a sector allocated to (IT, cloud hosting and web/online/in-app payments), got big thanks to no competition, and thought he has actual power.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#314

Post by jackthehammer »

f430 wrote: post #95

Guo Wengui said back in September 2019 that "Jack Ma would be jailed or killed" on Kyle Bass's youtube channel. [1] At this point its not even a question of whether we will see Jack Ma in public again. Overnight he went from billionaire to peasantry. We've seen dozen cases like this: 1) Billionaire disappears or is "killed" 2) Billionaire's company becomes nationalized 3) Rinse & Repeat Everybody who isn't familiar w…

[dead]

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#315

Post by baybal2 »

baybal2 wrote: post #129
jcytong wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: How does one get educated about modern China? (I'm Chinese but mostly Western educated) Having seen my grandparents/parents/relatives escaping communist China and now my generation escaping HK, it has heavily influenced me on how even people who identified as Chinese and hoping for democracy and freedom for their own cousins in China are being played and lied to for multiple decades. My people in HK…

> It's believed that the only way is to "distrust and verify" and not kowtow to their ways like what the West had been doing for the previous decades The only way that will work will be dropping few tank divisions on direction to Beijing. I've dealt a lot with people like Xi, and Putin in my life, during my childhood, and youth in worse parts of Russia. I've tried everything, nothing stops them, they will keep pushin…

In other words, what I want to say is that Puting, or Xi will not go anywhere from seats of power, nor would they back down, unless they are down, like down physically. Not advocating a war, per se.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#316

Post by ckozlowski »

russh wrote: post #258
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What benefit does the CCP get by owning Alibaba and Ant? Can't the CCP do whatever it wants anyway? Why does it need to own these companies? And aren't there a lot of negatives by taking over the largest IPO in history only a few months later???

It sends a message.

It reminds me a lot of the Mikhail Khodorkovsky case. Similar struggle, it feels.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#317

Post by dang »

xster wrote: post #3

Is it me or there's some cognitive dissonance going on with the whole article discussing the ramifications of a nationalization without describing at all what sourced this "news" in the first place? A cursory search seems to show this is a regurgitation on a sourceless Radio Free Asia article ( https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/alibaba-probe-1225202... ) from December?

I think we need to wait until there's something more substantial to go on. The headline makes it sound like this is a thing, when in fact (as far as we know so far?) it's a rumor.

There's a long tradition of "$Person hasn't been seen in public -> gigantic dramatic narrative" in media stories about authoritarian countries. No doubt it's great for clicks, but these things mostly turn out not to be true. If this one turns out to be true, we'll certainly find out and discuss it then.

Edit: also, there have already been a bunch of major threads on basically this same story: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#318

Post by pas »

ketamine__ wrote: post #306

What is Jack Ma's projected net worth after nationalization? Do investors get a buyout?

If he gets out of this with a few very long apologies and crippling debt, but alive and free, then he will be already much luckier than millions of others.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#319

Post by bosswipe »

dddswguy wrote: post #279
bosswipe wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 850 million people out of poverty. This is not something a reasonable person can argue against! I'd argue against it on the grounds that the planet doesn't have enough resources for everyone to live a middle class lifestyle.

Are you really arguing that due to limited resources people in less developed countries in Asia or Africa should continue to suffer so that the developed countries can keep their middle class lifestyle?

I didn't say that, I don't know what the answer is. But the fact remains that there are not enough resources for the consumption level where we are now. If another billion people are raised to China levels it will be a bigger disaster.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#320

Post by helen___keller »

berneezy3 wrote: post #257
hungryhobo wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but Guo wen Gui is not a credible source. His past claims have repeatedly been debunked. Not to mention his deep ties with Steve bannon

Guo Wen Gui has made some previous claims that seemed outlandish at the time, but turned out to be true, such as China forcibly taking control of Hong Kong, causing protesters to flood the streets; the CCP lying/withholding information on the transmission and the origins of the virus; billionaires being kidnapped/murdered after conflict with the CCP. I would agree that he often exaggerates, and some of his claims do…

He also continues to claim that Trump will ultimately win the presidency, that covid-19 is a bioweapon deliberately unleashed on the west, that the CCP is in collusion with (just about) every mainstream media, and financial instution, as well as controlling democrats.

He's responsible for the abomination of misinformation that is gnews and gtv which has been consistently spreading absolute bogus regarding the pandemic, the election, and politics, for a really long time.

Yes, Guo is right about some things every now and then, and yes he without a doubt knows more about the inner workings of CCP than 99.9% of people.

But let's not give him more credit than he deserves, he's not a fucking prophet. Let's not build another political cult of personality around an eccentric billionaire. If you take a look at gnews/gtv, a Guo cult of personality really is the only description you can think of.

Post reply on HN