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Stripe bans Trump campaign

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Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#311
post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here, and I am not disagreeing with you or blaming you for this, is the Republican Party spent four decades telling us ceding control of things to the marketplace and private industry was going to make the world better. That they are now hoist by their own petard is something for a better person than me to not laugh at.

And on the flip side, the Democrats have been clutching pearls about the monopoly of big tech, but once big tech starts silencing their political opponents they come rushing to big tech's defense and talk about how much they believe in free markets. It's entertaining as hell.

If that does happen, if they were to abandon oversight of Big Tech over this, that would be soulless and wrong. I just don’t see how you know this will happen.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#313
post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop downplaying a literally terrorist attack on the nation's Capitol.

It's entertaining how the left was so critical of the use of the word "terrorist" when talking about the War on Terror, but then immediately started throwing it around when it politically expedient.

The FBI says one the biggest threats is domestic terrorism.

> In recent years, federal authorities have described American extremists as the most urgent terror threat to the country and beefed up resources against them, carrying out a wave of prosecutions this year to head off potential violence as the presidential election approached.

https://www.propublica.org/article/domestic-terrorism-a-more...

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#314
post #26

The people cheering this on will not be protected when the mob comes for you. We live in a digital age. If having the wrong opinion means you can get your bank accounts and all Internet presence removed from you, it's not any different than living under a fascist government.

What mob? The one what wants to hang Mike Pence? I'm not a Trump supporter but as a Christian I admire Mike Pence as a person, even before he supported Trump.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#315

And yet Apple and Google have never taken any action against twitter despite similar content over the past four years threatening or organizing violence on twitter - content which is still there to this day. America has fallen into an Orwellian society. Would have never thought that possible, but to see the number of people supportive of such a society is mind boggling.

can you link to any content on Twitter where people are organizing violence?

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of speech was created when there were many distributed newspapers. If one newspaper decided not to publish your piece, you could go to another. There was not a cabal of newspapers that controlled 99% of information distribution, like do Twitter, Facebook, and Google. This is not something the founders ever could have foreseen. For all intents and purposes, freedom of speech has flatlined in America. What will…

Freedom of speech has nothing to do with newspapers or news, and never has done. It only protects you from government, nothing else. There are legitimate concerns regarding monopolistic behaviour of large digital gatekeepers. But we don’t solve that by deciding to restrict their speech (which is what forced speech would be). You solve it by either making them utilities or breaking them up to create more competition.

> Freedom of speech has nothing to do with newspapers or news, and never has done.

If somebody speaks in the woods, and there's nobody there to hear it, do they make a sound?

Yes, they technically have free speech, but in reality not really.

The purpose of speech is that you might persuade somebody else. If there's nobody to talk to, you might as well not speak at all.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know if you were paying attention last week, but the mob literally came for the members of Congress. There are wrong opinions, and then there is “six million Jews were not enough” and “hang the Vice President”, and a violent mob attacking the Capitol. No one is under any obligation to tolerate such actions in a civil society. If I advocate for your murder, am I just expressing an opinion that should be conseq…

The mob has been coming for law enforcement and federal buildings in many major cities in America for nine months now. This mob actively organized on Twitter and other social media. Where was the outrage in June? Most of the organizations that organized this destruction still have their Twitter accounts.

Where was the "we love you, we know how you feel, please go home peacefully" rhetoric in June? Imagine the inroads that could have been made if Trump actually cared about injustice against Americans! Instead he stoked the fire, and saved his adoration for his cronies to throw them under the bus when they failed to secure him his position as unelected president.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Visa is a "utility," why are we clutching pearls when Trump is banned by them, but not Pornhub?

> If Visa is a "utility," why are we clutching pearls when Trump is banned by them, but not Pornhub? Visa is not a utility. I would be open to debating whether they should be one. The flip side of such a designation is it would likely require the government indemnify Visa against fraud losses. The line between deplatforming for fraud risk (the ostensible reason for Visa’s aversion to porn) and for objectionable conte…

That's what I'm saying. Where was the outrage when Pornhub was banned? If they're not a utility when they kick off Pornhub, how can they possibly be a utility when they kick off Trump? You don't get to have it both ways.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#319
post #128
post #64

Not to be reductionist but I don’t see this as a totalitarian issue. This is a free market decision. $Company decides to sever ties with another organization. That choice can be good, bad, reactive, overreactive, misguided, etc but it’s still a market participant choice. Market remains open for other market participants to make other choices.

On one hand it feels completely appropriate and even deserved. On the other, yes, this is unfortunately a path to a very serious totalitarian issue. Situations like this one underscore the future importance of cryptocurrencies. Without an uncensorable currency, any political adversary -- especially an incumbent -- can just coerce payment processors into blocking payments to their opponents through threats of imprison…

I don't think it is a totalitarian issue. One problem is that the SEC and FTC have sat on their hands in the 21st century. There is no competition anymore. At worst this leads to party supporting companies in each market who will still allow it.

Re: Stripe bans Trump campaign

#320

Maybe I'm being naive but it seems like a larger problem is being ignored here that I feel I should call attention to. This is going to piss people off and some of those people are going to be real, nothing-to-lose extremists. Actions like these though seemingly harmless in the short-term are going to radicalize the exact person/type of people that you do not want to radicalize. Because a lot of high-ranking SV folks…

The problem is those people are already radicalized, and if you give them what they want out of fear, then they’ve already won
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