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WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

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Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#311

Post by Tijdreiziger »

throwaway77_a wrote: post #303
Normal_gaussian wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its worth remembering that whatsapp used to have an annual charge, and it grew successfully with that. The charge was only removed once FB bought them. Personally I don't know anyone that started using whatsapp after the fb purchase, so they were all happy to pay for their use of a messaging app.

Did they have that ever on iOS? I’ve never seen it.

On iOS there was a one-time purchase fee. I recall there theoretically also being an annual charge, but IME this was always waived.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#312

Post by perryizgr8 »

throwaway77_a wrote: post #303
Normal_gaussian wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its worth remembering that whatsapp used to have an annual charge, and it grew successfully with that. The charge was only removed once FB bought them. Personally I don't know anyone that started using whatsapp after the fb purchase, so they were all happy to pay for their use of a messaging app.

Did they have that ever on iOS? I’ve never seen it.

IIRC they charged for the app download on ios, and on android the initial download was free, but with a promise that they would start charging an annual fee soon. But that never happened. They kept extending the deadline and then got bought out.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#313

Post by xwdv »

Zelphyr wrote: post #285

It has been said that companies that build rely too heavily on the public, free API’s of another service are doomed when that service decides to monetize those API’s. See, for example, API users of Google Maps. I think we are now at the point where this applies to individuals. If a person or group of people rely too heavily on a single free service then they’re going to feel pain when that service finally decides to…

There is a free lunch, it just doesn’t last forever.

Use a service until it’s useful, then be prepared to leave when you no longer agree to its terms. The average user will go through many social networks and apps throughout their life.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#314

Post by bozzcl »

frereubu wrote: post #22

I'd love to give up WhatsApp, but network effects are key here. I tried moving my extended family off WhatsApp onto Signal a couple of years ago and it failed miserably because the app wasn't nearly as easy to use, and they had all their friends on Whatsapp. Has anyone here had any success moving a large group of people onto something like Signal or Telegram? If so, do you have any tips?

Unfortunately, I'm on the same stand as you. I managed to move my direct family and one group of friends into Telegram, but the rest didn't follow and many have been pestering me to go back.

I was thinking about going back, actually, but using a separate phone number (dual SIM FTW) and a work profile sandbox with heavily restricted permissions. I might still give it a shot, see if that's enough to quell FB's insatiable hunger for personal data.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#315

Post by 29083011397778 »

intricatedetail wrote: post #135
generalizations wrote: post #128

Everyone is comparing signal vs. telegram, but what about element? Far as I can tell, that might actually be secure. https://element.io/

No messenger is secure. You never know if the code that is being run is the same as reviewed. If you want true privacy, then you need to encrypt messages yourself (with e.g. PGP)

Wouldn't building (& hosting) the server, building the client, and communicating only with accounts using your server be just as good?

Note that this isn't just theoretical - there are governments using Matrix, but not necessarily federating with other instances.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#316

Post by tobib »

Zelphyr wrote: post #285

It has been said that companies that build rely too heavily on the public, free API’s of another service are doomed when that service decides to monetize those API’s. See, for example, API users of Google Maps. I think we are now at the point where this applies to individuals. If a person or group of people rely too heavily on a single free service then they’re going to feel pain when that service finally decides to…

That's why I'm still sceptical of Signal. It's free as well, paid for by donations but still. At the end of the day I'm not the one paying directly for the service I'm using.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#317

Post by Quiark »

qalmakka wrote: post #195
frereubu wrote: post #22

I'd love to give up WhatsApp, but network effects are key here. I tried moving my extended family off WhatsApp onto Signal a couple of years ago and it failed miserably because the app wasn't nearly as easy to use, and they had all their friends on Whatsapp. Has anyone here had any success moving a large group of people onto something like Signal or Telegram? If so, do you have any tips?

I managed to get almost everyone I know on Telegram in the last few years, to the point I get a WhatsApp message less than once a week. On the other hand, I usually hundreds of messages daily on Telegram. It's not hard if there's already interest among the people you talk with and you find the right way to get them on board.

And that is an improvement over WhatsApp when Telegram doesn't even encrypt group chats?

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#318

Post by cercatrova »

renjimen wrote: post #219
lifty wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatsapp had to compete with SMS, so when I was introduced to WhatsApp I thought it was a godsend and immediately adopted it. Also advertised it to all my friends. Switching now might be harder because there is a lot less to gain, besides some non-tangible “privacy”. What is this thing called “privacy”?

I was nodding along with your comment, wondering why it had been downvoted until I reached your last statement and couldn't tell if you were being serious or not.

Are they not right though? People don't really care about "privacy", they just want it to work, and work with their friends. You or I can harangue all we want but it doesn't change the fact that people don't care in aggregate.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#319

Post by blacklight »

I love Telegram because of the wide set of features, because of their bot API and because I can easily use it on any client I want - including Bitlbee. And I like Signal because of its built-in security, although the lack of an API, easy integration into other clients, automation and ease of use from multiple devices prevent me from using it more. But I guess that this is a trade-off to be accepted for having strong encryption and messages stored only on the device.

Let's keep in mind however that these are advanced use cases, and that for 99% of the users these are just apps supposed to deliver text and media from A to B. In 2021 it's not hard to build an app like these, even with E2E encryption and 2FA. Social lock-in obviously plays a role, but I'm really appalled by the scarcity of alternatives that enables companies like Facebook to bully us into reading our private messages for advertising purpose and easily get away with it.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#320

Post by soupson »

sfinaed wrote: post #286

What do people here think of Element.io (with the default matrix.org server)?

The information you put in parenthesis immediately rules it out for 99% of users. I can count on one hand the number of my family members who have any concept for what that information means.
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