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Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

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Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#311

Post by setgree »

donarb wrote: post #272
setgree wrote: post #252

Beyond the creepiness of the tasks required, what sticks out to me is the persistent use of Amazon-specific jargon: > Analysts must be capable of engaging and informing L7+ ER Principals (attorney stakeholders) Does anyone who doesn’t work at Amazon know what “L7 + ER Principals” means? Perhaps these are universally understood terms in some fields, but my guess is that the “error” was posting this publicly, and it wa…

L7 is a Level 7 employee, going from lowest to highest, Bezos is level 12. ER is Employee Relations (HR).

I also figured that out by searching, but what does it mean in context? I.e. what is the significance of talking to people at that level vs one above or below, and why, given limited ad space, would you include this detail?

You could try to figure this out by trying to map out all of amazon and see how far away from Bezos your “stakeholders” are, but so what?

It’s a signal that tells some people much more information than it tells others. It’s either an oversight or a deliberate message that the job is for insiders. Either way, it’s baffling to me, an outsider.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#312

Post by throwaway42092 »

dencodev wrote: post #107
alecb wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm impressed by how low-quality this anti-union astroturf bot is. If you have sentience, how much did someone pay for you on Fiverr?

HN is not the best platform to from anti-capitalism sentiments. There's a lot of privilege here and it makes people pretty blind to how awful capitalism is (and the things it creates, like anti-union sentiment).

Amazing how many downvotes you collect for pointing out this.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#313

Post by pklausler »

rxhernandez wrote: post #167
reading-at-work wrote: post #17

Not surprised. Tech companies (Facebook and Google in this case, and probably others) have been known to retain Pinkerton agents to monitor employees. Yes, those Pinkertons. “Among other services, Pinkerton offers to send investigators to coffee shops or restaurants near a company’s campus to eavesdrop on employees’ conversations.” https://newrepublic.com/article/147619/pinkertons-still-neve...

In general, it's not a good idea to talk poorly about your employer in public if you want to keep your job; I've heard of at least a couple cases where someone was fired for "mouthing-off" to their spouse in a public place like a grocery store.

It's not the smartest idea to talk poorly about your employer in private, either. Especially in "confidential" employee surveys.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#314

Post by sitkack »

chrisseaton wrote: post #81
smnrchrds wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you call them goons? Politicians, activists, all sorts of people go door knocking around the time of elections and referendums. What made this interaction so different that you call them goons sent there to intimidate you, not activists trying to attract your vote?

Union activists in the UK have a reputation of being bullies, and in some cases in the past they've used physical violence to try to get people to do things their way. At the height of union fever back in the 80s it got so bad at one point that union activists dropped a concrete block on someone's head from a bridge because he was trying to get into work and they thought he should be striking (David Wilkie.) I would…

> union fever back in the 80s

I think you meant to say Margaret Thatcher's war on labor? Her boyfriend in America was doing the same thing at the same time.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/reagan-fires-113...

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#315

Post by [deleted] »

edent wrote: post #307
kmlx wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

don't know why you're getting downvoted. this is part of history and one of the many reasons unions have failed in the UK. and they're still failing having lower number of members every single year.

"The number of employees in the UK who were trade union members rose by 91,000 on the year to 6.44 million in 2019." https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/trade-union-statist...

[deleted]

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#316

Post by rightbyte »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #156
wnevets wrote: post #78

Whenever unions are mentioned on HN there always seems to be a coordinated effort to attack them in the comments, very interesting.

I doubt it’s a conspiracy or organized comment ring. The popular narrative around unions is one of the employees versus their employer, but ultimately even the business’ customers or adjacent businesses end up paying some of the price. For an example that will probably hit home for many HN users, try asking your trade show team about dealing with unions. The restrictions imposed by unions on trade show attendees are…

I guess you can't let people attach whatever willy nilly and trip the circuits or start a fire. Furthermore, that requirement is set by the trade show not the union right? Surely they take a share from the bills.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#317

Post by [deleted] »

sitkack wrote: post #314
chrisseaton wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Union activists in the UK have a reputation of being bullies, and in some cases in the past they've used physical violence to try to get people to do things their way. At the height of union fever back in the 80s it got so bad at one point that union activists dropped a concrete block on someone's head from a bridge because he was trying to get into work and they thought he should be striking (David Wilkie.) I would…

> union fever back in the 80s I think you meant to say Margaret Thatcher's war on labor? Her boyfriend in America was doing the same thing at the same time. https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/reagan-fires-113...

[deleted]

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#318

Post by cactus2093 »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #237
cactus2093 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and while we're "changing the world" it's really not in any egalitarian or progressive way There is a good argument to be made that increasing the GDP is a moral imperative [0]. I know it's increasingly trendy to think all of capitalism is evil and we should tear the whole global economic system down (and to tweet about it from your iPhone while sitting in your air conditioned home, eating your meal delivered by Do…

I don't fully agree with your point, but I've upvoted you anyways, because this is an entirely reasonable response argument to the points I made and that's how HN is supposed to work. But please note I didn't say anything like "the average person working in tech contributes nothing positive to society." That's pretty ad hominem, and I don't think that, otherwise I wouldn't work in this industry.

Well I appreciate the good-faith discussion. And fair enough, I didn't intend to put words in your mouth, I was interpreting "not in any egalitarian or progressive way" as meaning "not in any positive way". But I can see how you might not have been making that strong of a claim.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#319

Post by sitkack »

drspacemonkey wrote: post #265
dylan604 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is awesome in a very very sad way. Several years ago, I started working for a company that was in the build up to a Yea/Nay vote for joining the union. During that time, 2 "goons" showed up at my apartment to discuss the benefits of joining the union and why not joining would be bad. However, these very "intelligent" goons showed up during the day, you know, working hours where I had a very low chance of being h…

I wouldn't be so quick to jump to the conclusion that they were _actually_ union. They may very well have been. But companies have a long, proud history of playing VERY dirty tricks in response to unionization. A former boss of mine once bragged about how he killed a union effort at a previous job. He worked a corporate job for a chain of restaurants that was threatening to unionize. He was given the task of showing…

Pretty sure his actions were actually illegal.

https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/em...

> Supervisors and managers cannot spy on you (or make it appear that they are doing so), coercively question you, threaten you or bribe you regarding your union activity or the union activities of your co-workers. You can't be fired, disciplined, demoted, or penalized in any way for engaging in these activities.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#320

Post by burfog »

ARandumGuy wrote: post #289
umvi wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't this just be because unions can have a deteriorating effect on meritocracy? Say you have 10 workers - 2 are rock stars and make $50/hr, 6 are average and make $20/hr, and 2 are bad and make $10/hr (min wage - because they are never promoted). Average "non-union" pay is: $24/hr Now say you unionize and the union forces you to start paying the bad employees $20/hr like all the other average ones. So now you pa…

I'm not sure what companies you've worked for, but salary is almost never based on a 'meritocracy,' it's based on the minimum amount an employer thinks they can get away with. That value has nothing to do with an employee's output, and everything to do with minimizing costs.

Your merit is the minimum amount an employer can get away with. If you had more merit, some other employer would steal you away by offering that much.

Your output determines your merit and thus your pay, subject to random inaccuracies.

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