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Why is Kubernetes getting so popular?

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Re: Why is Kubernetes getting so popular?

#311

Post by kronin »

yongjik wrote: post #224
verdverm wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you view all the VMs in a project across the globe at the same time? Do you need to manage keys when ssh'n into a VM? Do you know what the purpose of all the products are? If you don't know one, are you able to at least have an idea what it's for without going to documentation? The have also directly opposed many efforts for Kubernetes, even to their own customers, until they realized they couldn't win. Only t…

Of course everyone's experience is different, but in my case... > How do you view all the VMs in a project across the globe at the same time? I'm not sure what it's got to do with k8s? I can't see jobs that belong to different k8s clusters at the same time, either. > Do you need to manage keys when ssh'n into a VM? Well, in k8s everybody who has access to the cluster can "ssh" into each pod as root and do whatever th…

If you're running pods as root, you're doing it wrong. That was a no-no with docker, and it's still a no-no for kubernetes. People still run non-containerized services as root too...

Re: Why is Kubernetes getting so popular?

#312

Post by Aeolun »

courtf wrote: post #280

I honestly couldn't tell you. What I can tell you, is that the unbelievable bloat in the complexity of our systems is going to bite us in the ass. I'll never forget when I joined a hip fintech company, and the director of eng told us in orientation that we should think of their cloud of services as a thousand points of light, out in space. I knew my days were numbered at exactly that moment. This company had 200k uni…

Kubernetes makes it easier to run your application if it’s already way too complex for it’s own good.

Re: Why is Kubernetes getting so popular?

#313

Post by lonelappde »

frompdx wrote: post #195
yongjik wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm really? My experience is that, with k8s I end up learning all the complexities of k8s in addition to AWS. Besides, personally I find AWS console much easier to understand. I don't get why people hate it.

> I don't get why people hate it. Because it is hard to manage the configuration. It's why tools like terraform exist. Anecdote. I worked for a small company that was later acquired. It turned out one of the long time employees had set up the company's AWS account using his own Amazon account. Bad on it's own. We built out the infra in AWS. A lot of it was "click-ops". There was no configuration management. Not even…

Why not just migrate the resources?

Spin up new instances, load data from snapshots, get back to work.

Re: Why is Kubernetes getting so popular?

#314

Post by vbezhenar »

StavrosK wrote: post #245
wolco wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious why run it at all? The cost must be 10 times more this way. It is mostly for the fun of learning. I come from the opposite approach. I have 4 servers two digital ocean $5 and two vulr $2.50 instances. One holds the db. One server as the frontend/code. One server to do heavy work and another to server a heavy site and holds backups. For $15 I'm hosting hundreds of sites, running so many background processes. I…

How do you do automated deployments, though? I don't like using K8s for small stuff, but I am also extremely allergic to having to log on to a server to do anything. Dokku hits the sweet spot for me, but at work I would probably use Nomad instead.

What's wrong with logging in to a server? I love logging in to a server and tinkering with it. Sure, for those who operate fleets of hundreds it's not scalable, but for a few servers that's a pleasure.

Re: Why is Kubernetes getting so popular?

#315

Post by hinkley »

silviogutierrez wrote: post #163
archsurface wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure "a plain ol' Django monolith" with none of the "fancy stuff" is either what people are referring to when they say "kubernetes", or a great choice for that. I could run hello world on a Cray but that doesn't mean I can say I do supercomputing. Our team does use it for all the fancy stuff, and spends all day everyday for years now yamling, terraforming, salting, etc so theoretically our setup is "entire ap…

Reading this charitably: I guess I agree. k8s is definitely overpowered for my needs. And I'm almost certain my blog or my business will never need that full power. Fully aware of that. But I'm not sure one can find something of "the right power" that has the same support from cloud providers, the open source community, the critical mass, etc. [1] Eventually, a standard "simplified" abstraction over k8s will emerge.…

I'm learning Elixir now, and it's quite confusing to me how one would go about deploying Elixir with K8s. How much you should just let the runtime handle.

How much of K8s is just an ad hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow implementation of half of Erlang.

Re: Why is Kubernetes getting so popular?

#316

Post by kronin »

wolco wrote: post #225
silviogutierrez wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading this charitably: I guess I agree. k8s is definitely overpowered for my needs. And I'm almost certain my blog or my business will never need that full power. Fully aware of that. But I'm not sure one can find something of "the right power" that has the same support from cloud providers, the open source community, the critical mass, etc. [1] Eventually, a standard "simplified" abstraction over k8s will emerge.…

Curious why run it at all? The cost must be 10 times more this way. It is mostly for the fun of learning. I come from the opposite approach. I have 4 servers two digital ocean $5 and two vulr $2.50 instances. One holds the db. One server as the frontend/code. One server to do heavy work and another to server a heavy site and holds backups. For $15 I'm hosting hundreds of sites, running so many background processes. I…

Sounds like your setup lacks high availability. If you don't believe you need that, then yeah, kubernetes is overkill.

Re: Why is Kubernetes getting so popular?

#317

Post by kronin »

theptip wrote: post #124
tombert wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swarm is still supported and works. I have it running on my home server and love it. Kubernetes is fine, but setting it up kind of feels like I'm trying to earn a PhD thesis. Swarm is dog-simple to get working and I've really had no issues in the three years that I've been running it. The configs aren't as elaborate or as modular as Kubernetes, and that's a blessing as well as a curse; it's easy to set up and adminis…

> setting it up kind of feels like I'm trying to earn a PhD thesis. Are you following "k8s the hard way"? I've never had this problem; either: `gcloud container clusters create` Or `install docker-for-mac` And you have a k8s cluster up and running. Maybe it's more work on AWS?

Ekscli (if you want managed) and kops (if you want to manage it yourself) are just as straightforward.

Re: Why is Kubernetes getting so popular?

#318

Post by hinkley »

ithkuil wrote: post #141
tombert wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swarm is still supported and works. I have it running on my home server and love it. Kubernetes is fine, but setting it up kind of feels like I'm trying to earn a PhD thesis. Swarm is dog-simple to get working and I've really had no issues in the three years that I've been running it. The configs aren't as elaborate or as modular as Kubernetes, and that's a blessing as well as a curse; it's easy to set up and adminis…

> setting it up kind of feels like I'm trying to earn a PhD thesis. The kind of people who has to both set the cluster up and keep it up and also has to develop the application and deploy it and keep it up etc is not the target audience. K8s shines when the roles of managing the cluster and running workloads on it are separated. It defines a good contract between infrastructure and workload. It lets different people…

One of the things nobody liked to talk about in public when test automation was slowly "replacing" testers is that if you had the testers write automation, they brought none of the engineering discipline we tend to take as a given to the problem.

It's hard to make tests maintainable. Doubly so if you aren't already versed in techniques to make code maintainable.

I wonder sometimes if we aren't repeating the same experiment with ops right now.

Re: Why is Kubernetes getting so popular?

#319

Post by StavrosK »

vbezhenar wrote: post #314
StavrosK wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you do automated deployments, though? I don't like using K8s for small stuff, but I am also extremely allergic to having to log on to a server to do anything. Dokku hits the sweet spot for me, but at work I would probably use Nomad instead.

What's wrong with logging in to a server? I love logging in to a server and tinkering with it. Sure, for those who operate fleets of hundreds it's not scalable, but for a few servers that's a pleasure.

The problem is when you need to duplicate that server or restore it due to some error, you have no idea what all the changes you made are.

Besides, it's additional hassle and a chance for things to go wrong, the way I have it set up now is that production gets a new deployment whenever something gets pushed to master and I don't have to do anything else.

Re: Why is Kubernetes getting so popular?

#320

Post by falcolas »

courtf wrote: post #280

I honestly couldn't tell you. What I can tell you, is that the unbelievable bloat in the complexity of our systems is going to bite us in the ass. I'll never forget when I joined a hip fintech company, and the director of eng told us in orientation that we should think of their cloud of services as a thousand points of light, out in space. I knew my days were numbered at exactly that moment. This company had 200k uni…

> is that the unbelievable bloat in the complexity of our systems is going to bite us in the ass.

My favorite example of this right now is Vitess. Sure, it's a beautiful piece of technology. But, for a usecase my company is looking at, we'll be replacing one (exceptionally large) DB with in excess of 80 mysql pods, managed by another opaque-through-complexity system running on the top of kubernetes (which already bites us regularly even though it's "managed").

The complexity and failure scenarios makes my head ache, even though I should never have to interact with it myself.

Oh, and my current favorite PITA - having to change the API version of deployment objects from 'v1beta1' to 'v1' in over 160 microservice charts as part of a kubernetes version upgrade. Helm 2 doesn't recognize the deployments as being identical, so we're also have to do a helm3 upgrade as well, just to avoid taking down our entire ecosystem to do the API version upgrade. Wheeee!

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