Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help • Hacker News Board

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#311

Post by tsm » Tue, May 05, 2020, 3:32 AM UTC

jrochkind1 wrote: post #252

cambalache wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not a Neruda poem. It is apocryphal. Pablo,ever the communist, would have never written such a piece of libertarian crap.I am surprised that such a fan of Neruda as you claim to be did not notice that.

I barely know anything about Neruda, and i was thinking... geez, I thought he was known as a good poet, did he really write that garbage? Maybe it lost something in translation? Whether you 'agree' with what it's apparently didactically trying to say or not, that's just a bad poem.

> Maybe it lost something in translation?

Native Spanish speaker here, and the original text is just as lackluster

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#312

Post by throwaway191918 » Tue, May 05, 2020, 3:33 AM UTC

Many here will attempt to give you a justification or rationale to your predicament. I've discovered, through my own experience, that this way of coping is predominate in technology (when a problem reveals itself, find a solution). Sometimes this is the right way to approach it. For example, If you know the end you are seeking, finding a means and sticking with that way of being will eventually get you closer to that end. But if you don't know the end, you revert back to the means with which you are most familiar: attempting to solve it rationally. I've found this approach to be unfruitful. This sort of thinking is something I dwell in quite a bit. I'm happy to be a sounding-board for you if you want.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#313

Post by SamPatt » Tue, May 05, 2020, 3:37 AM UTC

yters wrote: post #228

zozbot234 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Moving a bit further from the specifics, it's worth noting that this is not a natural state of affairs. Humans evolved to be in groups of about 30-100 people who they knew their whole lives Yup, there are still some anarcho-primitivists who think technology was a bad deal for us humans overall, and that living in a tribal setting of hunters-gatherers is best. The infamous "unabomber manifesto" was broadly advocatin…

Well, there are the billions who are now alive thanks to modern agriculture and medicine. We are perhaps comparing the best of the past with the worst of the present, which may not be a fair comparison. Best is to collect the best of past and present to create the best future.

Well said.

If we value the ability to experience consciousness ourselves, then surely the fact that 7 billion people exist is valuable in and of itself?

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#314

Post by throwaway839246 » Tue, May 05, 2020, 3:39 AM UTC

throwaway191918 wrote: post #312

Many here will attempt to give you a justification or rationale to your predicament. I've discovered, through my own experience, that this way of coping is predominate in technology (when a problem reveals itself, find a solution). Sometimes this is the right way to approach it. For example, If you know the end you are seeking, finding a means and sticking with that way of being will eventually get you closer to that…

If not identify a problem then find a solution, then what?

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#315

Post by xil12008 » Tue, May 05, 2020, 3:44 AM UTC

xiaolingxiao wrote: post #39

I have also experience close to burnout and recovered multiple times, in the process I have lost very precious relationships, and entire years were spent in darkness. I also have friends who have been in tech for close to ten years, and are close to burning out though they would never admit to such. This is the nature of the beast, all things that appear glamorous on the outside ( Hollywood, Finance, Tech, many nonpr…

Everyday I keep reminding myself that I don't really own anything - for every single line of code I am compensated with the money that I could use for whatever purpose. That being said, the illusion of ownership and purpose is fake. You don't really own any thing, and your contribution to the code base only has meaning for the company, but is meaningless for yourself. You just make a deal with the owner of the product, a.k.a. the shareholders of a company, that you agree to sell your time/intelligence/effort to them for money.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#316

Post by eric-hu » Tue, May 05, 2020, 3:45 AM UTC

euske wrote: post #165

bcrosby95 wrote: post #53

> I lost many friends. They weren't ever your friends. People at work rarely transcend beyond co-workers and into actual friendship. If all you do together is work and around-work activities, they probably aren't your friends. You're effectively people locked in a cage together that happen to get along. If you get together on days you don't work together then they might actually be your friend. If they've met your no…

I feel that Americans tend to use the term "friend" a lot more casually than, say, the Japanese. In Japan, your boss is never your friend. Neither is your teachers, colleagues, parents or siblings. A "friend" in Japan is somewhat closer to a soulmate, and not surprisingly we don't have many (for some people, not at all).

Which word are you referring to? I have limited knowledge of Japanese, but I’m fluent in Chinese so I’m curious if a similar word or usage exists.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#317

Post by throwaway191918 » Tue, May 05, 2020, 3:52 AM UTC

throwaway839246 wrote: post #314

throwaway191918 wrote: post #312

Many here will attempt to give you a justification or rationale to your predicament. I've discovered, through my own experience, that this way of coping is predominate in technology (when a problem reveals itself, find a solution). Sometimes this is the right way to approach it. For example, If you know the end you are seeking, finding a means and sticking with that way of being will eventually get you closer to that…

If not identify a problem then find a solution, then what?

Exactly. If you label it as a "problem", you will continue seeking and believing that, if only you had the right knowledge, you'd be able to have a "solution". Or. if you had an answer that was at least convincing enough to yourself, then that's sufficient. Unfortunately, I don't believe it's that simple. You can dismiss this as a problem, find a valid solution, and move along. Or you can become familiar with what it is like to be with this unease and let it speak for itself. I'm not saying this will work for you, but I want to make present the falsity that pure rationality will be able to solve problems like these.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#318

Post by throwaway839246 » Tue, May 05, 2020, 3:56 AM UTC

HAPMCEZ wrote: post #306

throwaway839246 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now that you know how the system works, would you feel better about yourself had you succeeded? Would you feel guilty? I think about that sometimes. Had I been one of the young optimistic CEOs running around talking about how to improve the world completely unaware of the tech underbelly, what would my life be like? If I had a button in front of me that would teleport me into that life, would I press it? I'm honest…

well based on that belief I think you might have your answers to why you went through this experience. you clearly value discovering both sides of things and you say you want to integrate that. The positive take I have on that is you want to integrate all of that information positive and negative into something stronger and more real. that's ultimately more creative and future looking then the CEO kiddies who just ri…

A lot (most?) of the responses in this thread are "learn to leave work at work, fuck greedy capitalism, enjoy your family and hobbies". And most of those responses sound to me like they come from people with a lot of unresolved resentment and cynicism. I know that I can't do that.

But my god, the integration is hard. No one really prepares you for it. The old role models don't work because they're unwittingly or deliberately blind to this. (For example, I've never heard pg talk about this, even though ycombinator is practically a factory that inputs idealistic people and outputs people with experiences like mine) Biographies cover this quite superficially; you basically never hear from the person in their darkest hour.

I'm sure many people have gone through this, but to me it really feels like uncharted waters.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#319

Post by flyGuyOnTheSly » Tue, May 05, 2020, 3:57 AM UTC

>So the worst case scenario is that you get eaten by vultures and lose friends. And the best case scenario is that you're in a soulless machine that turns everyone into an automaton.

If you're going for the gold, yes, that's what you may have to deal with.

If you're content working for yourself and not selling out to venture capitalists, life can be pretty sweet.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#320

Post by friendlybus » Tue, May 05, 2020, 3:59 AM UTC

ajavascriptdude wrote: post #68

this does seem like burnout but there is something else at play here. something which i have felt quite a lot is that in the 90s a lot of programming was creative and fun. it was to challenge authority. it created things like winamp.. it really whips the llama's ass. when is the last time you heard of a recent startup with a title like that? nowadays everyone around me is working on startups or talking to investors w…

The world is focusing on tradition and pinning people down to basic identities. It's terribly boring and true conceptual freshness is dying.