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The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

sfmayor.org

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Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#311

Post by rayiner »

muzz wrote: post #273
blast wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a class divide, unfortunately. The people who are getting hit hardest are the people who were already getting hit hardest. Most of those don't frequent the same internet forums we do.

Some politicians have pointed out that some lower income people are getting paid more to _not_ work now, due to unemployment benefits and the CARES Act. I'm not saying that I agree with those politicians. It seems like the concern for lower income people runs the gamut from them not being able to make it to them living high on the benefits hog. Edit: It's not just politicians-- similar stories are on CNBC: https://ww…

Why would you not agree? It’s simple math. In most states, your weekly unemployment is half your salary, up to a cap. Under the CARES Act, you then add $600/week. So if that extra $600 is more than half your weekly paycheck, you earn more on unemployment. It works out to everyone earning less than about $62,000, which is more than half of people in most of the country.

Pointing out that this creates a disincentive to return to work isn’t accusing anyone of “living high in the benefits hog.” It’s not that we’re talking about a ton of money. It’s that we do need most of the country to return to work eventually. And if even white collar workers making $60,000 a year are getting paid more in unemployment, that is a pickle we’re going to have to resolve at some point.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#312

Post by pacofvf »

skellington wrote: post #72
j79 wrote: post #3

I told my wife that I've come assumed shelter-in-place IS in place until a vaccine has been developed. Either that, or herd immunity is to a point where going outside isn't a game of Russian roulette.

As usual, American leaders are choosing OPTION 3 which is the worst option: OPTION 1. (SWEDEN) Control spread just enough to not overwhelm the health care system, but no more than that, in order to get to herd immunity as quickly as possible. This assumes that the area-under-the-curve will be very similar to any option that spreads the time-frame out. This level of lockdown is possible to implement for long periods o…

Where is Spain and Italy in your Options?

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#313

Post by dsfyu404ed »

cabaalis wrote: post #300
Skunkleton wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost none of what you said is true. This is not voluntary, there are laws which give these powers, essential businesses can stay open regardless of their size, recording breaking the law while conducting non essential business won’t help you in the supreme court, the federal government is saying lots and doing very little.

> there are laws which give these powers IANAL, but I know some of you are so I'm asking here. I've read that challenges to these orders will not succeed because of emergency declarations. The emergency declarations are supposedly backed by some law, correct? Don't we have a document in the national archives that guarantees things like peaceable assembly and not prohibiting exercise of religion? Yet we have people be…

State's usually have laws to the tune of "if X happens then the emergency is extra super legit and the governor's orders carry the force of law" where X may or may not include a legislature vote and these laws have been exercised sparingly and in good enough taste (i.e. in actual emergencies) that they haven't been challenged much so they live in the same constitutional gray area that many obvious affronts to the text of the constitution live in.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#314

Post by cavisne »

States should have let the feds make this decision. The states who hate the feds (california, washington, new york) are also the ones who have the trickiest political decision to make, as reopening in dense cities is always going to be a tradeoff.

The states who like the feds (middle america, texas) have the easiest decision as their states aren't dense.

Now Democrat politicians, who prefer to make intersectional, empathetic decisions have to make the toughest political choice imaginable.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#315

Post by nickv »

forgotmylogin2 wrote: post #175
marcell wrote: post #5

Blanket lockdown has to end. This policy has outlived its usefulness, and is harming people's quality of life without a clear goal. The initial premise of the "flatten the curve" memes was to avoid overwhelming hospitals. The shelter-in-place has not only had this effect, it's been too effective. Hospital utilization in the bay area is at around 10% when you count surge capacity that has been added [1]. Meanwhile, da…

+1. Continuing a lockdown of this severity makes no sense. San Francisco has only had 22 Covid deaths. A city the size of SF would be expected to see 5x as many cancer deaths as that in a normal month [1] and 7x as many heart disease deaths [2]. Instead, we're maintaining a policy that discourages people from seeking preventative treatment for these diseases on the basis that we don't want them contracting a less dea…

This reminds me of a quote going around a few weeks ago: "If we have done a good job, everyone will say we over-reacted."

As a counter point, NYC did _not_ do a good job and at it's peak COVID-19 killed more people than heart disease and cancer during the month of March [1].

[1]: https://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus-becomes-number-one-caus... (This is a national number but its even worse when you consider the vast majority of cases are in NYC/NYS)

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#316

Post by exhilaration »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #217
blast wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a class divide, unfortunately. The people who are getting hit hardest are the people who were already getting hit hardest. Most of those don't frequent the same internet forums we do.

Any suggestions on which they do frequent?

Reddit. My state's subreddit has a massive discussion about how the unemployment system is failing, completely unable to handle the enormous number of people trying to file claims. There's a lot of desperation in those threads.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#317

Post by malyk »

exhilaration wrote: post #310
hysan wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's scary. I was laid-off this month due to COVID-19. Luckily, I am getting paid for one more month because of the WARN Act. I've been looking, but it has been difficult since I'm competing with all the more senior co-workers and peers who were also laid-off. So how is my budget? * I know that there will be a time gap between being able to apply for unemployment and receiving it. The unemployment systems in the US a…

Since my wife is on my health insurance plan, COBRA is going to be very expensive. Instead of COBRA, can you get on an Obamacare ACA plan? That might be much cheaper.

you don't have to pay for cobra until you need it though, so you could get out spending $0, iirc.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#318

Post by sanderjd »

muzz wrote: post #273
blast wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a class divide, unfortunately. The people who are getting hit hardest are the people who were already getting hit hardest. Most of those don't frequent the same internet forums we do.

Some politicians have pointed out that some lower income people are getting paid more to _not_ work now, due to unemployment benefits and the CARES Act. I'm not saying that I agree with those politicians. It seems like the concern for lower income people runs the gamut from them not being able to make it to them living high on the benefits hog. Edit: It's not just politicians-- similar stories are on CNBC: https://ww…

Those increased unemployment benefits are very unlikely to last as long as widespread unemployment.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#319

Post by yongjik »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #4

I'm lucky enough to have remote work. And I'm sure many HNers have a nice buffer of savings from their tech jobs to weather the storm or are getting paid time off. But can anyone share what it's like to not be in either of these situations? How are your rent lords handling things? I live abroad in a cheap country so I can handle zero income, but I wouldn't be able to last long if rent was $2000+/mo instead of the Yet…

After seeing some commenters here arguing how old people dying of the virus will be a net positive to the US economy, I don't think HN has the moral ground to deride other communities on this issue.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#320

Post by walterbell »

Skunkleton wrote: post #236
walterbell wrote: post #162

People forget that there is no law which can put everyone under house arrest. This is all done voluntarily. Why is it ok for people to shop at Walmart and not at their local small business that sells the same goods and is better equipped to enforce social distancing, with customers explicitly opting in to visit the smaller store? If a small business can protect workers and customers, and a comparable large business i…

Almost none of what you said is true. This is not voluntary, there are laws which give these powers, essential businesses can stay open regardless of their size, recording breaking the law while conducting non essential business won’t help you in the supreme court, the federal government is saying lots and doing very little.

Unless there's a state-mandated quota on essential businesses, what's stopping a store from adding some essential goods to their inventory and merchandising? This would reduce the burden on other stores, i.e. increasing social distancing in parking lots and within the story.

Laws exist with the consent of the governed. When laws are instituted under premises (e.g models, intelligence) that are later proved wrong (e.g. data, WMD inspections), consent should not be taken for granted.

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