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Career advice for people with bad luck

chiefofstuff.substack.com

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Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love my 2001 Corolla. It's got 164k miles on it (had about 140 when I bought it), and I hope to get another 100k out of it!

Same here - except 220k. Still running great, but looking for a new-to-me car because i'm tired of driving it.

I feel like a used car underachiever right now, looking forward to 2025 when I get a back up camera and bluetooth.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're talking in the thread about bad luck. It's entirely possible - and common - to have finances in order, decide to have children, and then experience sudden events causing financial hardships. Also, we're in a subthread of "saving lots o'moneys by working for big tech", so this applies also to people wanting to improve your situation. I personally didn't realize how bad the calculus of chasing after companies in…

I didn’t say I had anything against anybody who has kids and falls on hard times. I understand that makes my comment rather off topic in this thread. I do know a lot of people who definitely did not have their finances in order and decided to have children anyway. The children are the ones who suffer most in these cases! This is super irresponsible and selfish. Hell, I once knew a couple who literally said they might…

Here I agree with you in principle - deciding to have a child while not being able to financially support it, and just hoping for the best, is extremely irresponsible and likely to permanently scar a new human being.

That said, before judging a struggling family, there are also some other things to consider:

- Pregnancies happen by accident. It's both easier and harder to conceive a child than people think. It can and does happen by accident even with multiple methods of birth control applied, and at the same time a couple can try to have a kid and not succeed for years (or at all).

- Your job can disappear suddenly and through no fault of your own. I had this situation in the past, where my coworkers and I didn't know that there was a hostile takeover of the company happening for almost a year before it run out of money and stopped paying us.

- Random events (family problems, illness, or a pandemic shutting down the global economy) can suddenly break your finances while a child is underway.

- People miscalculate.

- The drive to procreate is, in general, one of the strongest forces in all living organisms, and thus very hard to control - especially with abstract considerations like numbers on the screen symbolizing your chances of survival.

> Hell, I once knew a couple who literally said they might have a third child because it would be easier with the extra child support money...

Can't speak about that particular couple, but in general, that's economic reality. I've seen such things too (hell, my wife and I sometimes joke that we should try for two or for four, because there's little difference between three and four kids, and having a fourth gives guaranteed retirement from the government). Sometimes benefits are set up this way on purpose, by countries that want to improve their population growth.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're talking in the thread about bad luck. It's entirely possible - and common - to have finances in order, decide to have children, and then experience sudden events causing financial hardships. Also, we're in a subthread of "saving lots o'moneys by working for big tech", so this applies also to people wanting to improve your situation. I personally didn't realize how bad the calculus of chasing after companies in…

> I personally didn't realize how bad the calculus of chasing after companies in tech hubs looks until I started doing costs-of-living calculations while evaluating job offers with relocation. Your mistake was waiting until mid-career to try to pivot to a higher paying job in a HCOL area, because then you'll be 10+ years behind your peers. If you start your career in a HCOL area it's not unfeasible to reach 400k+ by…

I've made plenty of mistakes in my career, though arguably, I've never been in this for the money. What you describe is probably near-optimal from financial point of view, but I can't imagine my younger self being capable of seriously considering such thought process.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right to be concerned - it is a red flag. It's something I'd ask about if I were interviewing you. However, it's _not_ a dealbreaker: I've hired people who've been fired, with longer gaps than yours. You can recover from this. When you get asked about this, your interviewer is going to be looking for a few things: - are you honest about what happened self-reflective about the causes, and take ownership of the…

Thank you kindly for the extensive answer. > You don't need to -- and shouldn't -- go into specifics about the medical side, but you certainly can talk about things you've learned to keep yourself engaged and focused at work. This is very helpful. You touched on something I've been conflicted about, namely how to navigate being open about my situation without being open about the specifics of my medical condition (I'…

Good luck with your search! I am not a hiring manager but in my experience being involved I would agree that a gap isn't a deal breaker at all. In fact as long as you are upfront and show that you've improved from it that could be a positive too!

One important thing for me is to be aware of what you don't have to share to interviewers! Try to answer questions fully and honestly but don't be afraid to keep your medical specifics private

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After my working life had induced anxiety, panic attacks, and a host of other issues which really started to rear their ugly head I’ve become a much more religious person. On top of the professional help I’ve sought out for these issues, it has also helped a lot in my case when you internalize deep that work/money/material success really doesn’t matter in the grand scheme and there’s a greater goal to work towards.

What is this greater goal you speak of?

In my experience, religions are happy to hand out pre-baked sets of objectives. Live a life like X. Stay away from Y. Put your money in Z. If you have trouble deciding what direction you want to go, religion can point you somewhere and surround you with a community that will encourage you to keep moving that way.

For some people, that’s really valuable. You see this especially with people who’s prior independent experience didn’t work out very well. Maybe they grew up in an abusive home and want instructions on breaking the cycle and raising their family better. Maybe there was criminal behavior, substance abuse, relationship or career stagnation. For many people, a pre-packaged world view from Religion X can be a big step up from their prior experience, ESPECIALLY when it comes with a supportive community.

The problem, of course, is two fold.

First, life isn’t one-size-fits-all. Eventually the pre-packaged beliefs will be sub-optimal for your personal situation. The better religious communities are flexible enough to accommodate this. The uglier ones lock you down or cut you out.

Second, the pre-packaged beliefs usually assert their own universal and exclusive validity. Even if the one you pick happens to be correct about this, it encourages toxic behaviors that will isolate you from non-community members. And of course the claim is preposterous on its face; The interchangeability of religions undercuts their claims to universal truth.

So, to summarize: Religion is a reasonable place to get a default world view and community, especially if you’re existing beliefs/community aren’t serving you well. Long term they are suboptimal because they don’t adapt to your personal circumstances very well.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#316
post #92
post #23

A lot of talk here that colleagues aren't friends. What is wrong with you people? If you like your colleagues you can invite them to do stuff after you or they leave. They probably haven't invited you because they never got around to it either. Most of the older generation people met through work is the only way to make friends. No wonder loneliness is so rampant now.

I think it's more nuanced than that. If you hang out with them outside of work on a regular basis, then maybe they are genuine friends and that's great. The problem discussed is a different situation: You get along great with your colleagues, however you never spend time with them outside of work. Then let's say that getting along well with them nudges you to stay at the company longer even though your company/positi…

That is a great point, I've always found the true test for friendship is after I left the environment made us close.

This applies not just work friends, but college friends, activity friends and church friends.

Not everyone wanted to stay in touch, and I don't want to stay in touch with everyone. The few occasions where the desire to stay in touch is mutual, I cherish those connections for as long as they last, hopefully for a lifetime.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#317

Graduated with my BA in 2009 and definitely dealt with bad luck. Now, I work at a good company and have a good job (for now), but they are clearly making moves to shift the jobs to Texas. I’m just finishing my MBA and finding it really hard to find a job. Everyone wants you to have 5-8 years of experience doing exactly what they’re hiring for and don’t seem willing to train if you have 60-80% of the qualifications. R…

> Everyone wants you to have 5-8 years of experience doing exactly what they’re hiring for and don’t seem willing to train if you have 60-80% of the qualifications.

This is a big worry for me. I'm leaning towards switching to a loosely related disciple in a few years, but with programming domains. However, when I research jobs in domains in looking at, a vast majority explicitly want at least a couple years in that exact domain, but most want upwards of 5 years.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#318

Finally, a post that isn't all hunky dory. I'm at the bottom quartile at the moment, so I'm happy to take any reasonable advice that doesn't sound like: study algorithms and get into Google. Ok, I studied algorithms, got rejected at the paper round. Now what? The tough part isn't passing the interview, it's getting a chance in the first place. This advice is better. Some points that really stood out to me and that I'…

> Ok, I studied algorithms, got rejected at the paper round. Now what? If you actually studied then play the odds? I.e apply to the dozens of other large tech companies that pay handsomely. Unless there's only Google in the Netherlands (assuming that's where you are based on the Dutch reference) or you already applied to dozens and got rejected at the paper round by all of them

Other than HFT firms, tech companies here don't pay handsomely, so you need to look for other European countries. I've tried Google and Facebook for years (not in NL they aren't that big here and want specialized people, not graduates).

You're right, I only tried Optiver 18 months ago. I should try all the others. I'm not too interested in HFT but the technical challenge sounds fun.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#319

Finally, a post that isn't all hunky dory. I'm at the bottom quartile at the moment, so I'm happy to take any reasonable advice that doesn't sound like: study algorithms and get into Google. Ok, I studied algorithms, got rejected at the paper round. Now what? The tough part isn't passing the interview, it's getting a chance in the first place. This advice is better. Some points that really stood out to me and that I'…

IMO, forget the big companies and startups. There's plenty of opportunities at smaller, established companies, which are, in my opinion, often better places to work anyway.

How would I be able to reach a similar conclusion if I don't have any experience of working at a big company? I'm open to learning more about this idea.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#320

I really want to see more articles like this on HN. However, this is really "career advice for people at struggling companies." The luck part doesn't get discussed in the way I expected. To me, bad luck is things like: - You're in the wrong place at the wrong time. Ex. you graduated in 2008-2010/now or your business sector got wiped out by COVID - Despite your best efforts at networking, you simply never meet that ma…

I can speak to one of your points! I got dealt a bad hand in terms of health issues. However, a few years before I developed my health issues, I happened to have a long talk with a guy who had advanced MS. He told me that after his diagnosis, he tried to sock away as much money as possible and go for higher-paying jobs, as he knew that one day he'd become fully disabled and have to live on disability. Also, disabilit…

Very cool! Congratulations on your exceptionally clear-eyed approach to a major life challenge!

I’m sure this sounds sarcastic, but I’m genuinely impressed. It takes a lot of mental discipline to examine long term trends, make a correct projection, identify an appropriate course of action and then implement it even when its disruptive to your personal life.

I hope it worked well for you, and that you are living your best life despite your health challenges.

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