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Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

bbc.com

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Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#311

Post by seneca »

myle wrote: post #259
Nimitz14 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A counterpoint: A friend of mine had a kid a year ago and he found it impossible to take care of the baby when he tried being the caretaker while the mom was away (can't breastfeed, milk in a bottle is not the same). The experience has convinced him equal parental leave is a terrible idea.

Counter counter point: I am a father. Took 5 months off. Baby was breastfed. How? Mom was pumping milk at work, after her lunch break. We put it in the freezer. I was waking it up and giving it with a bottle to my daughter. Diapers/food and so on can be taken care by both genders. It is not easy. Actually, at the end, I was looking forward to going back to work and sending my daughter to daycare, once she was 1 year…

> Baby was breastfed. How? Mom was pumping milk at work, after her lunch break. We put it in the freezer. I was waking it up and giving it with a bottle to my daughter.

This isn't breastfeeding, unfortunately. Your baby was fed breast-milk, but not breastfed. Not a value judgement, but a father feeding a baby from a bottle isn't exactly the same thing developmentally.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#312

Post by jredwards »

In the tech worker's paradise that is California, I'm preparing for my generous two weeks of paternity leave. My co-worker, having not been employed at the company for a year yet, is preparing to burn all four days of his vacation time because he's not entitled to paternity leave yet.

This is broken.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#313

Post by opportune »

nickbauman wrote: post #292

I don't know what it's like in the Nordic countries but here in the US I walk down the street with a 4 year old on my shoulders to work every day to drop her off at school. The women I pass on the street and in the halls beam at her when she greets them and sometimes they exchange a few words. The men? They don't notice her: she's edited out of their minds eye like she doesn't exist, even if she cries "HULLOOO! My na…

You’re saying you’re bothered by men not smiling at your kid as they walk past?

Hardly think that has anything to do with making good decisions about civilization

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#314

Post by lotsofpulp »

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #294
lotsofpulp wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I have. But time and time again, my fellow voters (and non voters) have shown that they don't quite care as much about things like paid parental leave as much as they do taxes, gun rights, national "security" and military engagements, restricting abortion rights etc.

I care about all of those things and parental leave. I doubt you can group all those people together, and remember, you don't know them. You listed a lot of right issues to imply that the left is the only side fighting for it, which is not true.

I listed those things because those are the things I see being prominently debated. Also, all of the states with paid parental leave, and other laws good for the general public such as assisted suicide and marijuana legalization, are in Democrat states, for what it’s worth.

But at the end of the day, the root obstacle is voter non participation from those that would benefit the most, and voters who absolutely will not accept higher taxes, especially for any type of wealth redistribution such as paid parental leave, healthcare, education, etc.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#316

Post by arbitrage »

sgt wrote: post #77
dragonwriter wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After all, there are certain things like breastfeeding Mother's can and do express milk to be fed to babies in bottles; the fact that a baby is on breastmilk doesn't require the mother to be with them 24/7, and formula is a thing that exists. What other things are there?

I would assume that there is some kind of maternal bond, so that it would be best for the mother to primarily be exposed to the newborn at least in the first 6-12 months. I doubt sucking on a plastic bottle would assist with the maternal bond. What do you think?

It does, though. A lot of skin-to-skin contact is vital for new babies. Both parents should have lots of skin-to-skin contact, face time, and direct caregiving exposure with baby.

The method of milk delivery is not as important as being with the baby.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#317

Post by VBprogrammer »

myle wrote: post #259
Nimitz14 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A counterpoint: A friend of mine had a kid a year ago and he found it impossible to take care of the baby when he tried being the caretaker while the mom was away (can't breastfeed, milk in a bottle is not the same). The experience has convinced him equal parental leave is a terrible idea.

Counter counter point: I am a father. Took 5 months off. Baby was breastfed. How? Mom was pumping milk at work, after her lunch break. We put it in the freezer. I was waking it up and giving it with a bottle to my daughter. Diapers/food and so on can be taken care by both genders. It is not easy. Actually, at the end, I was looking forward to going back to work and sending my daughter to daycare, once she was 1 year…

> helped me grow up in a sense that I wouldn't have it I didn't go through it.

I can certainly relate to this point. My little one has just started nursery and my partner gone back to work. As her companies flexible working is pretty inflexible she works every other weekend (and over January more than that) which means I've suddenly started taking care of the little one on my own much more than I have done until recently.

It's been pretty eye opening if I'm honest. It was way too easy to consider maternity leave a nice long holiday. I wish I'd have had the experience earlier as it would have changed my view on things considerably.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#318

Post by danans »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #238
bluGill wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments have an interest in how the children grow up. Now there is some "whatever that means" encoded in the above. However it is generally noted that children with a good relationship with both parents tend to do better in life than those with only one parent. Thus there is an interest in ensuring that relationship exists if possible.

I would rephrase that as "society has an interest in how the children grow up" so that the reader is clear that it's not a third party, but themselves that is benefited by having fellow citizens that grow up in stable families.

> it's not a third party, but themselves that is benefited by having fellow citizens that grow up in stable families.

This is something that I think can help to build common ground between working people, whether they are family oriented conservatives or economic progressives in the US.

By reducing the economic stress our current system places on working families through guaranteed benefits (parental leave, education, healthcare), we can actually promote the well-being of families in general, which is a goal shared by people across the political spectrum.

Everyone benefits from the reduction of crime and other social ills that often have their origin in unstable families.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#319

Post by leetcrew »

dfxm12 wrote: post #199
lotsofpulp wrote: post #162

As an American, I find it hard to be patriotic about my country when my fellow citizens can’t muster up the political will to ensure any paid parental leave for most people. Edit: changed parental leave to paid parental leave

Well, there is a big election coming up. You can find out who is on the ballot, where they stand on this issue and pass the info along to the people in your area. If someone isn't planning on having kids, they might not think it affects them, so be prepared to convince them otherwise, too.

when you say "increased parental leave", childfree people tend to hear "more money out of my pocket". I'm not sure how you would go about convincing them this is a good thing.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#320

Post by stevekemp »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #12

But will they force Dads to take it? As a Dad who had two kids, I would much rather pay for childcare than take paternity leave. Would someone like me be held back artificially to promote equality? EDIT: Not a freak, don't care for the infant stage. Happy to dote when they start to turn into people.

I think even if you didn't want to take the leave for its own sake you might find taking it would let the mother have some time and rest which didn't involve caring for a tiny-human non-stop.

But to answer the question more literally I suspect there would be no penalty.

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