This should have happened with Python 2/3.
I'm not sure I agree with you but I can't imagine why you're getting downvoted. It's definitely an argument worth making.
Nobody likes hearing their favorite language trashed.
Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku
311–320 of 463 posts
Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku
#312I used a workflow automation system at my previous gig that used java heavily on the backend. Rakuraku Workflow was the name. I hated it. The name, that in japanese means something like “easy easy” (楽々) didn’t help much. It was a mess.
Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku
#313Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well right now I avoid using any tool written in python that doesn't have os-level packages because there still isn't a clean way to use python repos without deep understanding of how python works.
I think this is more connect with the lack of familiarity with the language ecosystem than anything. I avoid tools written in node.js, even if installing is somewhat easy, most because I don't really know how to manage them later. Btw, nowadays with a modern pip a simple `pip install --user package-name` works.
No, it's due to two reasons. Devs don't ever think about who might be interested in using their tools and just assume that everyone who might want to use their work has just as much knowledge as they have in their particular mineshaft.
Second, the creators of the language didn't bother thinking about how people are supposed to ship software when they were dreaming up the language. Languages are cool, maintenance and support aren't.
I'm not even saying my pet language is immune, I don't know that I'd use Ruby tooling that didn't have OS packaging if I didn't have deep knowledge of Ruby. I plan on figuring out just enough of python to be able to use python tooling, but I think it's super-stupid that no one thinks of that use case and so requires that everyone has expertise before they can use at a basic level. Should I have python 2 or 3 installed on my machine? Why can't I have both and have the language just choose and default sanely? Python seems to be utterly stupid in this regard.
Stupid, but that's the world as it is right now. I single out python because there's more devs writing more interesting python projects that are totally useless to anyone who isn't a python dev than any other lang. Also then again, Ruby devs/teams who do make tools for broader consumption usually package their stuff up because everybody knows Ruby tooling is total shit. Python devs don't seem to have this awareness of this limitation of their ecosystem, beaten in myopia only by the juggernaut of uselessness that is the nodejs ecosystem.
Then again is ruby really that bad? Everybody knows you have to use a ruby version manager, you can't get very far at all in Ruby without one. I don't think they're really all that hard for an even mediocre dev to instrument. Is it really worth setting up virtualenv or whatever the heck pythonistas are using for env management these days for basic usage of a project written in python? How much of it do I have to know? Is it going to bite me in the ass one day like nodejs does just about every time I have to deal with it? Questions I don't want to deal with, so I strongly consider rewriting python tools in ruby at a bare minimum level because I don't want to take the time to ship personal tooling.
Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku
#314so, raku is shortened for rakudo the perl compiler. rakudo itself might be japanese but i can't confirm.
google, in their infinite wisdom, doesn't want to translate the word because they think i am typing it wrong and they know exactly what i meant to type... but anyways, i think it has to do with paradise or heaven, but i could be wrong.
Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku
#315This has been a huge deal for the Perl community. First, it was thought that Perl 6 would be the replacement for Perl 5. But it was long ago recognized that there was no clear upgrade path from Perl 5 to Perl 6, so it was agreed that Perl 6 was a "sister" language to Perl 5 rather than the successor. Except that many people expected that Perl 6 would be the replacement, so that stalled many projects. So an "alias" fo…
If only the Python community could learn something here
Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku
#316Earlier quoted context omitted.
Oh man I just love and adore Crystal. I am a long time rubyist and I have to say they just nailed it with Crystal. I just wish I had more opportunity to use it professionally!
It must be time to take my Ruby skills and go and learn this. Is it really as easy as it sounds like it should be for a lazy, dynamic-typing sort of Ruby dev to pick up?
If you have never worked with a strongly typed language before there might be some getting used to that, but any pain is well worth it. Catching all your mistakes at compile time and not at runtime is so amazing. Oh and it’s literally 100x faster than Ruby in some cases.
Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku
#317It will have quite interesting implications, especially for former Perl 5 syntax enthusiasts. One could say in Polish they "code in cancer" ("programuje w raku").
Not "z raku"?
Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku
#318Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm trying to understand, what kind of scripting requires first-class concurrency that isn't fulfilled by say Python?
Why should first-class concurrency needs be required to script in Elixir? This question seems to imply that Python is somehow a default language and special requirements must be needed to justify writing in something else. Elixir is general-use and pleasant to write scripts in so seems reasonable to me for someone to do so if that's their thing.
I'm embarrased to say I write scripts in node :P I used to write scripts in python but I've been writing so much JS that it's just easier for me in node. Plus, node defaults to locally installed deps so I don't have to deal with virutal environments.
Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku
#319Earlier quoted context omitted.
And this might save Raku. Lisp has a social problem: It's been called Lisp too long. People look at some simplified LISP 1.5-esque thing in a programming languages textbook and see a "pure" language (which isn't so pure compared to Haskell, but the creep of what "functional programming" means is its own post) which is completely useless. They don't see modern Common Lisp with its package management facility and its p…
> Foogols get new names every couple decades (PL/I to Ada to C to C++ to Java to C#... ) +1 for Foogol. Reference to commercially obscure language but annoyingly influencial Algol?
> +1 for Foogol. Reference to commercially obscure language but annoyingly influencial Algol?
Yes, even though I don't dislike Algol and the Algol syntax style, necessarily, I just wish they'd imported more Lisp influence sooner.
Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku
#320Earlier quoted context omitted.
Erlang is great, and I miss working with it, but I'd never want to write much in the way of 'quick scripts' with it. Something like Ruby feels much more productive for that.
Heh, escript isn't so bad once you get used to it. Clojure would be a great language for small-ish scripts if it weren't the dog-slow startup times, and has excellent concurrency support. I hear that GraalVM might fix that but I sadly haven't had a chance to play with that yet.
Ya, GraalVM fixes it. But it requires a compile step, so it's not as nice for scripts.
My favourite for scripting right now is Joker: https://github.com/candid82/joker
Joker is a Clojure dialect which is interpreted, thus it starts super fast (but runs slower, but fast enough for scripts). Its design is to be batteries included for all things scripting. So it's just a self contained executable with everything you need for scripting. It's implemented in Go.
I use it wherever I would have used bash or powershell prior.
There is also Babashka: https://github.com/borkdude/babashka which is a similar idea, it's an interpreted dialect of Clojure with fast start times designed for scripting. The difference with Joker is that it is newer and more experimental, and it is implemented in JVM Clojure, compiled with GraalVM and has no Windows support for now.
Anyways, I really recommend the use of Joker. Its awesome for scripting. I just put its binary in all my bin folders and script with it. It's great.