Richard M. Stallman resigns • Hacker News Board

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#311

Post by ryan_lane » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 5:52 AM UTC

xlii wrote: post #254

I, as many others, never personally liked Dr. Stallman and didn’t agreed with many of his views. That being said, the way that that happened is absolutely terrifying. Fact, that people rather crucify someone instead of argue, explain or prove him wrong is the sign of our times. End of free speech is here. It’s free only if it doesn’t offend group powerful enough to destroy you, and it’s narrowing every single day. We…

If your views are pro voluntary pedophilia I think maybe you should suffer. That's a pretty ageless thing in regards of people not being OK with it, and that shouldn't be a shock to you.

The government isn't telling him that he can't share these views, so take your free speech bullshit somewhere else. You're free to say things, and we as a society are free to show you the fucking door. He shared his awful views (and was an active abuser) for decades, and finally we're showing him the door.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#312

Post by cabalamat » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 5:53 AM UTC

joe_the_user wrote: post #49

aazaa wrote: post #14

I've seen some online cheering Stallman's resignation from MIT. I suspect they'll also be cheering about this resignation as well. But this is nothing to cheer about. Regardless of what low regard the man might be held as a person, he's being persecuted for having expressing ideas, demanding proof of claims, advocating for objective standards, and asking questions. These are all hallmarks of scientific inquiry. It se…

I too, am a fan of Stallman's accomplishments and I am sad that debate on this topic essentially can't happen. That said, I think Stallman's position really is fundamentally wrong and problematic. Legally, sex with underaged people is rape regardless of consent. Morally, that stance really is justified in the most common circumstance - when the non-underaged person has more power and experience than the underaged per…

> Legally, sex with underaged people is rape regardless of consent.

There are many jurisdictions where this is not the case.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#313

Post by roguecoder » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 5:53 AM UTC

bitwize wrote: post #201

aazaa wrote: post #14

I've seen some online cheering Stallman's resignation from MIT. I suspect they'll also be cheering about this resignation as well. But this is nothing to cheer about. Regardless of what low regard the man might be held as a person, he's being persecuted for having expressing ideas, demanding proof of claims, advocating for objective standards, and asking questions. These are all hallmarks of scientific inquiry. It se…

It's 2019. Social justice and "cancel culture" are intrinsic values to open source now, at least as much as sharing code and collaboration. The situation with Brendan Eich shows that if you have the wrong political views, you are not considered fit to serve as the leader of any open-source organization or project. especially not one with corporate backing. It's too much of a risk of PR disaster. So be careful. Corali…

Thinking about how your actions affect your coworkers and customers isn’t some giant imposition, my dude. It’s a minimum baseline of professional competence. Any barista in the country knows better than to act like that in a professional setting.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#314

Post by krige » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 5:55 AM UTC

ken wrote: post #265

xlii wrote: post #254

I, as many others, never personally liked Dr. Stallman and didn’t agreed with many of his views. That being said, the way that that happened is absolutely terrifying. Fact, that people rather crucify someone instead of argue, explain or prove him wrong is the sign of our times. End of free speech is here. It’s free only if it doesn’t offend group powerful enough to destroy you, and it’s narrowing every single day. We…

Or be a comedian. Satire is practically immune. It’s hard to attack someone for something when they say something other than what they’re really talking about.

Not any more. See the recent (still current?) push towards cancelling David Chapelle.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#315

Post by smsm42 » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 5:55 AM UTC

friendlybus wrote: post #269

naringas wrote: post #114

it's rather interesting how all the information technology (social media, etc...) is slowly moving our culture towards increasing self-censorship. One has to have the right opinion or stay quiet. Having the wrong opinion about certain topics is getting more expensive. Stay away from taboos or else... never mind the fact that what we regard as wrong changes across different societies over time. Weirdly all the informa…

I agree the internet is getting locked down, it'll end up like daytime tv if we're not careful. But I'm two clicks away from access to Nazi and extremist content right now. The internet still is the wild wild west version of a library, in terms of access to content, but now there's laws and archiving of everything typed and read applied on top of that too. This Stallman case is edge-case fallout from a massive politi…

> But I'm two clicks away from access to Nazi and extremist content right now

So? Don't make these clicks and you'd never see them.

> The political control of internet arguments is more obvious than ever, and the quest for advertising money

Advertising money has nothing to do with it - FSF doesn't need advertising money. They're just live in deathly fear of the woke Red Guards, as many before them (e.g. Mozilla) - and that fear may be very well justified.

> but I'm fairly sure I can start and run a website/subreddit/blog for whatever niche idea and be left alone.

Sure you can. If you can do without: hosting, DDoS protection, DNS, advertising, search engines, social media, payment processing, etc. All those have recently been engaged in deplatforming people for political considerations. But yes, you are free to lay your own cable infrastructure, set up your own data centers, build out your own internet, and there have you own website about whatever you want, completely free.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#316

Post by _nedR » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 5:56 AM UTC

accntwithnoname wrote: post #178

robocat wrote: post #120

Why does this feel like such a witch hunt? It is clear RMS was stunningly clueless to write anything about this, but surely we all know of similar engineers that would make a similar error? If everyone were held up to the same moral standard, we wouldn't have many people left in power! Just to be clear: I'm definitely not supporting hurting children (directly or indirectly) - I hope I'm not falling into the same tar…

This wasn't a witch hunt. This should have happened a long time ago. He is a creep, and has been problematic for years. “He literally used to have a mattress on the floor of his office. He kept the door to his office open, to proudly showcase that mattress and all the implications that went with it. Many female students avoided the corridor with his office for that reason…I was one of the course 6 undergrads who avoi…

> This wasn't a witch hunt. This should have happened a long time ago. He is a creep, and has been problematic for years. “He literally used to have a mattress on the floor of his office. He kept the door to his office open, to proudly showcase that mattress and all the implications that went with it. Many female students avoided the corridor with his office for that reason…I was one of the course 6 undergrads who avoided that part of NE43 precisely for that reason. (the mattress was also known to have shirtless people lounging on it…)”

Sorry, but you have to be explicit with your accusations. Call me naive, but if you say 'mattress and all the implications that went with it' in the context of hacker culture : the obvious implication is that he is a hacker, who likes to immerse himself in his work, pulls all-nighters. At worse it implies a lack of hygiene and a healthy separation between life and work. Okay a mattress might be taking to the concept a bit far but bean-bag culture is rooted in the earliest days of Xerox PARC, Microsoft, Apple (both Steve Jobs and Bill gates have talked about a lifestyle of sleeping in their office and not going home for days on end), Homebrew club, etc.

I read the medium article and its accompanying appendix, and imo, its scant on facts, and filled with weasel-wording, political posturing and self-obsession.

There is mention of a report of sexism in AI labs. But what are the facts of the report. Was Stallman implicated in this report? The article doesn't say so. It looks like the author ju just put it out there to make a association between RMS and sexism in the minds of the readers.

The only real factual account( by 'factual' account i mean explicit about the alleged details and facts of events) is the one where the management undergrad was hit on in the restaurant.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#317

Post by droopyEyelids » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 5:56 AM UTC

benatkin wrote: post #79

favorited wrote: post #4

Not unexpected, but I'm surprised it happened so soon after he resigned from MIT/CSAIL. Earlier today the director of the GNOME Foundation requested that RMS resign from the FSF, and said severing ties with the FSF could happen if he didn't step down. https://blog.halon.org.uk/2019/09/gnome-foundation-relations...

I think there was more social pressure for him to resign from FSF, and more institutional pressure for him to resign from MIT/CSAIL. The institutional pressure probably wasn't as painful, but was more forceful. I think he'd probably been holding back the pressure he felt to get the FSF thing over with for a while, but hoping for the controversy to die down, but when he was forced (or practically forced) to resign fro…

Did he resign from MIT? If so, he won't be sleeping well- he actually lived in his office (it was also his residence)

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#318

Post by Y_Y » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 5:57 AM UTC

mkeedlinger wrote: post #239

There are so many judgements on both sides, both in these comments and in the articles on the subject that have been submitted, but very little quoting of what he said in context. Where can I find what he said? Why is everyone talking about what he meant without quoting what he said so I can decide what makes sense for myself?

From stallman.org:

    16 September 2019 (Resignation)

    To the MIT community,

    I am resigning effective immediately from my position in CSAIL at MIT. I am doing this due to pressure on MIT and me over a series of misunderstandings and mischaracterizations.

    Richard Stallman

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#319

Post by newnewpdro » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 5:58 AM UTC

panny wrote: post #303

I never thought in a million years I'd see the Silicon Valley bubble become so deranged that they'd reverse polarity. Watching HN eat their own liberal legends like Stallman, at the direction of Fox News and NY Post. This is truly astonishing.

I don't get the impression that the majority of HNers these days actually advocate for Free software. It's not like the GPL is the most popular license, my impression is that the FSF and GPL had its peak growth in the early 2000s.

Nowadays most developers seem to prefer permissive licenses and distributing proprietary software for android/ios. They couldn't care less about RMS.

Just look at how little response Purism Librem 5 update threads get on HN. They're practically dead, and this device is the only modernish GNU/GNOME/Linux smartphone to speak of.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#320

Post by ryan_lane » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 5:58 AM UTC

kfrzcode wrote: post #165

naringas wrote: post #114

it's rather interesting how all the information technology (social media, etc...) is slowly moving our culture towards increasing self-censorship. One has to have the right opinion or stay quiet. Having the wrong opinion about certain topics is getting more expensive. Stay away from taboos or else... never mind the fact that what we regard as wrong changes across different societies over time. Weirdly all the informa…

I'm hesitant to post anything, anywhere, just because I don't want to offend anyone by expressing an earnest opinion. I think the trend's moving more quickly towards self-censorship than anyone realizes. How can we even quantify that? Those who censor just disappear? What stands out for me is the obvious monoculture we're developing. I miss custom PHPBB boards for every little interest and opinion.

This is like the argument from male managers who say they can't have 1-1s with their female workers. It's tired, and shows a lot about your character.

When you say this, you're sending up a red flag with a flare.