A Walk in Hong Kong • Hacker News Board

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#311

Post by spacehunt » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 6:45 PM UTC

ekc wrote: post #262

gwathk wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't report the first half of the story: "police"(without any ID) suddenly charged into a mall filled with retreating protestors and common folks. One "police" poked the said protestor's eyes. The protestor instinctively bit back.

No. You're either misinformed or intentionally lying. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/16/an-eye-for-an-... https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/medic-shot-in-eye-durin...

gwathk was talking about the incidence on July 14, not last Sunday.

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#312

Post by spacehunt » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 6:58 PM UTC

spyckie2 wrote: post #19

This piece is quite accurate - it really makes you feel like you're in Hong Kong during the protests. References aside, as a US citizen in Hong Kong there are some things that I respect immensely and some things that really get on my nerves about HK. I greatly respect the people and the cause. It reminds me of that one poem - > Do not go gentle into that good night. > Rage, rage against the dying of the light. The pe…

> I wish the culture would be more willing to engage in conflict resolution type conversation and learn how to do it.

It's rather difficult to engage in conflict resolution when the other side refused to listen for at least the past 22 years...

I do agree with you, but it takes two to tango.

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#313

Post by natechols » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 7:07 PM UTC

tombh wrote: post #276

sherjilozair wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is this thought experiment meant to say? If the people of Liverpool or San Francisco want freedom and make their own country, many in the west would support such a thing. After Trump got elected, the separationism meme was spread in California half-seriously. The reason this thought experiment doesn't really work is that it disregards a crucial piece of information that the CCP is an authoritarian regime, while…

[flagged]

You are assuming that nobody here knows about the history of Hong Kong. This is incorrect: many of us are familiar with this history (which I first learned about in American public schools). We simply disagree that it is at all relevant to the question of what is best for the people of Hong Kong.

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#314

Post by learc83 » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 7:15 PM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #301

spectramax wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s replace China with X so there is no xenophobic rebuttals. X is an authoritarian regime that has no rule of law, president has self declared perpetual status in the office, piracy is rampant, no respect for privacy of others, there is an app called ourchat that is effectively owned by the government and is increasing becoming a necessity, no media let alone any kind of investigative journalism especially against…

> An eagle in the world of doves can kill a lot of doves and have short term evolutionary imbalance. But soon, the marginal cost of turning into an eagle is so small so there are new eagles popping up in the population all of a sudden. This looks like a reference to the Hawk-Dove game. For those who haven't heard of it: You have a population of two groups, hawks and doves. When they come into conflict (say, over a so…

>It sounds better, but in terms of societal welfare, it's worse.

Within the very contrived confines of the hawk-dove model sure, but I highly doubt that the hawk-dove game is a particularly useful model for society as a whole.

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#315

Post by jnaddef » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 7:24 PM UTC

avip wrote: post #27

Interesting to contrast this with popular demonstrations in US or France. No windows broken? Burnt city infrastructure? No beaten up police? All so quiet.

Well if you look at French media, you will believe French protesters are just there to break everything. If you look at Chinese media, you will believe Hongkongers are just there to break everything.

If you actually go to a protest in France you will realize it is pretty much the same as what is described in that text, just people trying to protest but met with unbelievable violence from police.

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#316

Post by mytailorisrich » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 7:26 PM UTC

keiferski wrote: post #273

tombh wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it may look like I'm taking China's side, but I'm not. In fact it's the automatic dismissal of all possible attempts to understand the Chinese perspective that I'm fighting against. How does simply asserting one side to be the antagonist and leaving it at that, help the situation? If things are black and white then we miss the fact that HK's legitimacy is of a different kind to Taiwan's. Which in turn reinforc…

I simply don't see how someone could simultaneously support self-determination and yet determine "legitimacy" via some nation-state government elites and not by the actual people living there. If you believe in democratic values, it's irrelevant if Hong Kong is "legitimate" in the eyes of the CCP. This type of self-determining situation can be tricky in other circumstances (see: U.S. Civil War or Catalonia for some e…

> For numerous reasons, none of which have to do with a nuanced view of history: Brexit, internal domestic politics, fear of upsetting China, fear of impacting the British economy, etc. Britain in particular and the West in general have zero qualms about intervening in other countries' affairs when it suits them.

Hongkong is Chinese territory and this is no longer colonial time: China is no longer so weak that it may be slapped into compliance. China, though still not that strong, will do whatever it wants at home.

Of course, Britain is no longer a world power and is not in a position to dictate policy to other countries apart from the puniest ones.

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#317

Post by learc83 » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 7:28 PM UTC

mytailorisrich wrote: post #254

sherjilozair wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is this thought experiment meant to say? If the people of Liverpool or San Francisco want freedom and make their own country, many in the west would support such a thing. After Trump got elected, the separationism meme was spread in California half-seriously. The reason this thought experiment doesn't really work is that it disregards a crucial piece of information that the CCP is an authoritarian regime, while…

The governments of the UK and the US would not countenance the idea of cities gaining independence. In fact the US fought their bloodiest war over such issue...

150 years ago. Today if Scotland voted to leave the UK with a clear majority, the UK would let them go. If Puerto Rico voted to leave the US with a clear majority, the US would let them go.

I'm not sure what would happen if say 75% of a city wanted to leave the US because that has never happened and isn't very likely to.

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#318

Post by thaumasiotes » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 7:31 PM UTC

RugnirViking wrote: post #304

thaumasiotes wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In mainland, people sees the government as the ruler. They are not there to serve you, they are there to manage you. They never make mistake, and you must follow their lead. Mostly right, but there is no sentiment on the mainland that the government never makes mistakes. Quite the opposite.

I would be interested to hear more on this topic. What kind of things do mainland chinese think is bad about their government. What would they change?

From talking to my friends, pretty much what you'd expect:

- The government can't act quickly, and the things it does are often stupid.

- It also can't be trusted.

My favorite remark on this general topic actually came when I asked someone how Chinese generally thought of the US. Her response was along the lines of "Some people view it as the promised land, where everything is better. Some people are more cynical. There's one guy at my company who always has something negative to say about America. But even he says they did one thing we should thank them for: they published the air pollution numbers."

She was shocked when I told her, in another conversation, that there is a contingency in the US that is very vocally envious of how quickly the Chinese government can get things done.

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#319

Post by mytailorisrich » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 7:39 PM UTC

learc83 wrote: post #317

mytailorisrich wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The governments of the UK and the US would not countenance the idea of cities gaining independence. In fact the US fought their bloodiest war over such issue...

150 years ago. Today if Scotland voted to leave the UK with a clear majority, the UK would let them go. If Puerto Rico voted to leave the US with a clear majority, the US would let them go. I'm not sure what would happen if say 75% of a city wanted to leave the US because that has never happened and isn't very likely to.

The situation is that today the policy of the UK government is not to allow another referendum on Scottish independence...

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#320

Post by muricula » Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 7:43 PM UTC

Judging by the comments here I wonder how many people on HN have actually been to many protests, even small ones. If there's a cause you support, local or global, there may be demonstrations in your city. Get out there and make a difference!