Live data from Hacker News

Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

washingtonpost.com

311–320 of 525 posts

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#311

One thing that I fail to wrap my mind around: aren’t all those corporations executives, politicians, and poachers living on the same planet Earth as all of us? Don’t they ever think that they’re actually destroying our planet and there’s no other place to live? I can imagine that they don’t believe pro-climate change people, but they could simply hire an independent group of researchers, don’t they? And I mean actual…

I had this thought every time I see a certain group in the US demonizing the EPA. We all use the same air, water and soil. Aren't they afraid if their kids take in the toxins that are allowed into said resources because the EPA's funding is cut or they push through laws that prevent the EPA from doing what they should be doing??

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#312
post #307

One thing that I fail to wrap my mind around: aren’t all those corporations executives, politicians, and poachers living on the same planet Earth as all of us? Don’t they ever think that they’re actually destroying our planet and there’s no other place to live? I can imagine that they don’t believe pro-climate change people, but they could simply hire an independent group of researchers, don’t they? And I mean actual…

This isn't the outcome of just a small group of 'bad guys'. Extinction is a byproduct of the increased footprint of humankind as our populations and their associated demands grow. Climate change is one problem, but it isn't the full problem. For example, you need education (to reduce demand for poached goods), political and economic stability (to reduce conditions of poverty that make poaching a rewarding pursuit, or…

Sorry, but in the US at least, if you vote Republican, you are working actively against solutions.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this is an incredibly dangerous attitude. Kudos that you're doing your part, and leading by example is important. However, systemic change is possible. We have numerous counter-examples: the UN, the Montreal protocol, free trade deals, et cetera. So why don't we have systemic change for climate change, because people like you and I let our politicians get away with it! If it was obvious to politicians that…

The next U.S. federal election is an excellent opportunity to address climate change. Ensure that the Democratic primary chooses a leader with a good plan, and then ensure that he/she wins in 2020.

Democrat vs. Republican is the politicized version of Good cop vs. Bad cop.

The two-party system is a farce, it's not like past democratic leaders made any meaningful systemic changes to prevent climate change.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with individual action is that it requires a collective effort to make such sacrifices worth it, and most people aren’t willing able to make all or any of those sacrifices. For example: one cannot simply replace air travel with trains in the US. Amtrak is wholly inadequate to act in an interstate commuter transport capacity in the vast majority of the US. Also, I’m not at a point in my career where I can…

That's kind of the point. Stop thinking about "most people". Do it for yourself. If you believe in the climate emergency that is. You might be pleasantly surprised to see your friends around you follow the suit.

I like to think of this in terms of carbon debt. It is surprisingly easy to calculate the avg. per-capita lifetime carbon debt accrued by someone living in a specific country. It’s a fun metric to compare generational differences (e.g. baby boomers vs millennials) & location-based differences (e.g. USA vs.China) ... last time I did this I can to a carbon debt of EUR 20K for my generation. Which in the grand scheme of things is not all that bad.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also have a theory. Anxiety is increasing because anxiety sells. The right leaning sites raise anxiety about immigrants. Left leaning sites raise anxiety that Trump is on his way to becoming a dictator. Environmental sites raise anxiety about species going extinct. Business sites raise anxiety about increase regulation and taxes. Meanwhile, humans are the best off we have ever been. This is one of the most peaceful…

What you are saying is true. However never before have we humans been on the cusp of ecological collapse.

Check out the global temperature record. [1] In particular this [2] is the temperature from ice core readings for the past 800k years. Modern humans evolved sometime around 300k years ago. Can you imagine going through such sharp changes with negligible technology? They were surviving through these changes with little more than furs and basic woodworking. Consider the first evidence of something as trivial as metalworking. It's required for basically any other meaningful task and can be achieved very easily. All you need is mud, ore, and fire. Nonetheless, it was incredibly difficult to discover. The first evidence of metalworking doesn't appear until around 11,000 years ago! And this is just the macro scale. Local game extinctions, droughts, disease, and so on were a constant and often fatal occurrence.

So you might say that we're now just living through the first highly publicized possible collapse. Yet once again this also would not be true. While we now find these things laughable, at one time people took doomsday predictions very seriously. And throughout the centuries there are invariably influential religious figures (including, for instance, popes) that have offered doomsday predictions. So seriously were these taken that some figures have even been punished for making such predictions and then them not coming to pass. There were also things like the 'Great Conjunction of 1524'. This was an event that based on astrological reading that predicted the world would end with a new great flood. This led tens of thousands of Londoners to abandon their homes and head for higher ground.

Ultimately, humans thinking they're all going to imminently die because of something outside their control is not a new phenomena. However, mass media is.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_temperature_record

[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_temperature_record#/med...

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#316
post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean ditch most of the animals too? Because it seems highly unlikely what we're going to take even 1% of animal species into space.

we should not even consider taking any animals to space. let them be where they developed naturally. humans, on the other hand...

Given your views on asteroid impacts, that seems a bit short sighted.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#317
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next U.S. federal election is an excellent opportunity to address climate change. Ensure that the Democratic primary chooses a leader with a good plan, and then ensure that he/she wins in 2020.

Except it's also not. As a continent, Asia is the largest polluter by far. What's worst, they're exporting those practices to Africa. Meanwhile, the Anglo-West is hyper-focused on the US because there's a president they don't like. This has been a blessing (now the average Anglo-Westerner at least pretends to care about the environment), but also a curse (they think the US is the only country that can save humanity).

Per capita, North America is 4.6x worse than Asia: https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2018/10/CO2-emissions-by-...

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#318
post #311

One thing that I fail to wrap my mind around: aren’t all those corporations executives, politicians, and poachers living on the same planet Earth as all of us? Don’t they ever think that they’re actually destroying our planet and there’s no other place to live? I can imagine that they don’t believe pro-climate change people, but they could simply hire an independent group of researchers, don’t they? And I mean actual…

I had this thought every time I see a certain group in the US demonizing the EPA. We all use the same air, water and soil. Aren't they afraid if their kids take in the toxins that are allowed into said resources because the EPA's funding is cut or they push through laws that prevent the EPA from doing what they should be doing??

Maybe they don’t think they will suffer the consequences because they can screen their own water and soil. It could be that they have a scarcity mindset where their potential wealth is being used to test soil and water of other people at the expense of protecting them.

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#319

One thing that I fail to wrap my mind around: aren’t all those corporations executives, politicians, and poachers living on the same planet Earth as all of us? Don’t they ever think that they’re actually destroying our planet and there’s no other place to live? I can imagine that they don’t believe pro-climate change people, but they could simply hire an independent group of researchers, don’t they? And I mean actual…

That's the not-so-funny element. Companies like Exxon were the first to hire independent researchers back in the 70s and helped pioneer climate research, with management being briefed on the as far back as 1977, and had developed its own models by 1982 that were widely circulated within the company.[0][1] That research was allowed to continue for nearly a decade, and Exxon researchers consulted on DOE research and reports throughout the 80s. It wasn't hidden, either within the company or without, until management decided to take a somewhat different approach with its lobbying efforts. They saw the word "uncertainty" with regards to climate modeling as a lifeline, and they took it.

It's easy to generalize interested parties that promote climate change denialism as not giving a damn since they'll be long dead before the worst consequences hit. That may very well be a partial explanation, but if you look at how some of the rhetoric has shifted with talk of geoengineering, there's this idea that a future generation will be able to deploy technical fixes. And once you buy into the hope that offers, it's inevitable that you'll downplay the sheer cost and scale of such an intervention. After all, computers are cheaper now than they were in the 80s, so who knows how expensive geoengineering will be in a few decades? There's a hope that an easier, cheaper solution will present itself in the future.

So I think a larger part of the answer isn't so much that corporate executives and politicians don't believe in climate change (though there are probably plenty who have bought into their own spin), as it is that they've pinned their hopes on the terribly alluring delusion that maybe it'll be cheaper to reverse the trend tomorrow than make the sort of difficult choices needed to start mitigating it today. Or, more accurately, over three decades ago.

0. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/exxon-knew-about-...

1. https://insideclimatenews.org/news/18092015/exxon-confirmed-...

Re: Up to one million species are on the verge of extinction, U.N. panel says

#320
post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't the outcome of just a small group of 'bad guys'. Extinction is a byproduct of the increased footprint of humankind as our populations and their associated demands grow. Climate change is one problem, but it isn't the full problem. For example, you need education (to reduce demand for poached goods), political and economic stability (to reduce conditions of poverty that make poaching a rewarding pursuit, or…

Sorry, but in the US at least, if you vote Republican, you are working actively against solutions.

And if you vote mainstream Democrat as well ;-)
Post reply on HN