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Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

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Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#311

Post by carlivar »

elpool2 wrote: post #62
threeseed wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fully aware of their recommendation. But if Tesla is aware that certain parts of the road are more likely to cause incidents and they haven't communicated that. Well sounds to me like that would be criminally negligent.

Surely there's some sort of "autopilot does not work on all roads" disclaimer, right? That's why you're supposed to keep your hands on the wheel and pay attention.

Just like there is a warning on cigarettes, yet we have stopped allowing smoking in enclosed public places. Kind of like driving on a freeway...

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#312

Post by Beldin »

sytelus wrote: post #254

Tesla's blog post: https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/blog/update-last-week’s-accident the driver’s hands were not detected on the wheel for six seconds prior to the collision. The driver had about five seconds and 150 meters of unobstructed view of the concrete divider Looks like sensors failed to see concrete divider in nice sunny weather and car slammed in to it at 70mph. Driver was obviously over confident on system's a…

Looks like sensors failed to see concrete divider in nice sunny weather and car slammed in to it at 70mph. Driver was obviously over confident on system's ability to self-drive, probably busy looking at phone and ignored warnings to put his hands on steering.

Why would you trust the "hands-on-steer" sensors? There was a sensor problem, after all. No reason to trust the manufacturer when they claim these other sensors did work properly.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#313

Post by CriticalCathed »

So many people here have hardons for tesla hate.

The guy fucked up, bad. Tesla is not at fault here.

>"According to the family, Mr. Huang was well aware that Autopilot was not perfect and, specifically, he told them it was not reliable in that exact location, yet he nonetheless engaged Autopilot at that location. The crash happened on a clear day with several hundred feet of visibility ahead, which means that the only way for this accident to have occurred is if Mr. Huang was not paying attention to the road, despite the car providing multiple warnings to do so."

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#314

Post by imtringued »

areoform wrote: post #170
gugagore wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kalman filters over what state space? Localization isn't really the challenging aspect of self-driving cars.

I'm not sure what you mean but SLAM includes a strong mapping component that includes edge and environmental geometry detection. The unobserved variable here are the future locations of the boundaries of vehicles and obstacles (we can't predict where a vehicle would move so can an obstacle).

The autopilot failed to detect a stationary obstacle.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#315

Post by [deleted] »

fyfy18 wrote: post #286
spockz wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine that the court or some regulatory agency could order to automate these kind of reports and use them to shutdown autopilot or make it unavailable on some routes. It would be interesting to design the ux for this. Based on the wording it could even make them more liable if accidents happen outside of roads with known issues.

Why does it even need to be reported? Tesla should be able to detect where autopilot is regularly deactivated or does some wrong (driver takes over with sharp input on brakes or steering wheel), and use that to deactivate it prematurely.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#316

Post by agumonkey »

sytelus wrote: post #254

Tesla's blog post: https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/blog/update-last-week’s-accident the driver’s hands were not detected on the wheel for six seconds prior to the collision. The driver had about five seconds and 150 meters of unobstructed view of the concrete divider Looks like sensors failed to see concrete divider in nice sunny weather and car slammed in to it at 70mph. Driver was obviously over confident on system's a…

The statistics argument is one the worst thing about Tesla. It's borderline immoral and most probably a PR blunder.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#317

Post by aneutron »

neotek wrote: post #278

That's what happens when you mislead your customers into believing your self-driving technology is far more advanced than it actually is. I hope Tesla loses this case and is forced to change their bullshit marketing before more people lose their lives.

But they actually didn't. They specifically tell you it is NOT a fully autonomous autopilot and that's it's more of an advanced cruise control.

They also specifically tell you to KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE ROAD. If you fail to do so, you're asking for trouble.

It is unfortunate the guy haf kids that will now grow up orphans, but judging from the information I've read in the Tesla blog post, it is clear that he was in the wrong here, at least partially, for not paying attention while driving.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#318

Post by sjwright »

dubyah wrote: post #301
sytelus wrote: post #254

Tesla's blog post: https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/blog/update-last-week’s-accident the driver’s hands were not detected on the wheel for six seconds prior to the collision. The driver had about five seconds and 150 meters of unobstructed view of the concrete divider Looks like sensors failed to see concrete divider in nice sunny weather and car slammed in to it at 70mph. Driver was obviously over confident on system's a…

The problem with the no hands-on-steering-wheel detection claim Tesla keeps bringing up is that it's quite fallible and not as conclusive as they insist. A light touch(like one might expect while driving a freeway with cruise control and lane-keep assist, for example) may not provide enough torque for the sensor to detect it. Plenty of people have complained about it in the past. https://forums.teslarati.com/threads/…

> The problem with the no hands-on-steering-wheel detection claim Tesla keeps bringing up

I don't get why it matters. Why is Tesla's responsibility greater or lesser based on the position of the driver's hands? The driver could have had one hand on the wheel while mousing around on a laptop with the other. Or he could have been intensely focused on the road ahead with his hands resting on his legs, inches away from the wheel.

I'm neither defending nor attacking Tesla here, because I don't think I have sufficient information to have an opinion either way. But I'm pretty sure that learning the answer to this particular question wouldn't have any bearing on any opinion I might eventually form.

Re: Tesla sued in wrongful death lawsuit that alleges Autopilot caused crash

#320

Post by civilitty »

ksherlock wrote: post #173
SteveNuts wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're forgetting (more than a few) important functions that an airliner autopilot can do. Off the top of my head there's auto-throttle, auto-trim, and of course, if the runway is equipped, land the plane. Also, if the pilots input a heading change, the plane will execute a 1G turn using all control surfaces so it's almost imperceptible to the passengers. I think you're oversimplifying airliner autopilot.. by…

"autopilot" covers everything from a wing leveler to what you're describing. GP's description is entirely accurate for a general aviation airplane.

It's accurate but misleading when the training for general aviation costs a significant fraction of the car in question in 1 on 1 training alone. That Tesla is using a term easily misinterpreted by anyone who hasn't read an avionics manual stinks real bad.
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