I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me • Hacker News Board

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#311

Post by danShumway » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 6:13 PM UTC

ktm5j wrote: post #253

I also find the title to be rather sensational.. "I tried creating a web browser" ^ "Google blocked me" implies that Google blocked them from creating a web browser.. which is not the case.

If a single company can effectively decide whether a bunch of 3rd party sites that they don't control work on your browser, how is that any different? Google is effectively deciding that anyone other than pre-approved browsers can't play Netflix content.

If an ISP fully embraced the Net Neutrality repeal and started blocking video content, and someone posted on HN that ISPs were "blocking them from building a streaming service", no one would be complaining that, "technically you can build it, you just can't reach any of your customers." Everyone on HN would understand that part of building a service is the having the ability to reach customers.

In the same way, part of building a web browser is having the ability to render web content. If Google can block your custom browser from rendering content, then for all practical purposes they are blocking your ability to build a browser.

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#312

Post by tokyodude » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 6:14 PM UTC

jhasse wrote: post #144

tiraniddo wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, blame the movie studios, record labels etc. They're the one which require asinine DRM support for web browsers. Google/Microsoft/Apple/Adobe want to support media content, but to do so requires towing the line with the media companies otherwise they refuse to license the content (at least in HD+). Having worked with various DRM teams I know that they have to treat their code as if its the most secret code in the…

> No, blame the movie studios, record labels etc. They're the one which require asinine DRM support for web browsers. Google/Microsoft/Apple/Adobe want to support media content, but to do so requires towing the line with the media companies otherwise they refuse to license the content (at least in HD+). Let's say Google, Microsoft and Apple announce that they will be removing any DRM from their browsers on 2020-01-01…

Simple, which ever one switches first will lose all their users as they scramble to use a browser that still lets them watch the content.

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#313

Post by pcnix » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 6:16 PM UTC

tracker1 wrote: post #301

CodeCube wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He addresses this point specifically in his post ... developing it as an extension would reduce the features he can support, and further entrench it in google's walled garden (since he'd have to publish it on the chrome store). I don't have much more context in this person's project than anyone else, but your response is kind of the point, one vendor has too much power because they can't be expected to support any ki…

Worse still, if this offers an enhanced interface or "unwanted" options over YouTube, it's likely the extension itself may well not make it into the store. To make matters worse is side-loading of extensions is pretty much a non-starter for Chrome now that dev-mode is a nag screen on each start (at least last time I used it). I had a couple side loaded extensions, and the nag got me to do what google wanted, stop usi…

Dev mode seems to work without any extra windows for me, maybe things are different now?

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#314

Post by RandomBacon » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 6:17 PM UTC

numbsafari wrote: post #285

> Waiting 4 months for a minimal response from a vendor with > such a large percentage of the market is unacceptable. Umm... expecting any kind of response from a vendor with such a large percentage of the market is... kinda arrogant. Who are you to demand any kind of response from anyone? Big project or small? You'd probably be less offended if you had a better sense of self awareness about the nature of your relati…

> expecting any kind of response from a vendor with such a large percentage of the market is... kinda arrogant.

Are you saying Google is too big to be responsible?

Amazon is huge, and I'm able to get a customer service represenatitve in seconds.

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#315

Post by asveikau » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 6:18 PM UTC

alexnewman wrote: post #46

I wont use browsers with widevine. I refused to include widevine in any browser I worked on. Widevine is clearly a backdoor and chrome is often installed setuid root

Who installs chrome as setuid root?

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#316

Post by ryanolsonx » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 6:22 PM UTC

RandomBacon wrote: post #314

numbsafari wrote: post #285

> Waiting 4 months for a minimal response from a vendor with > such a large percentage of the market is unacceptable. Umm... expecting any kind of response from a vendor with such a large percentage of the market is... kinda arrogant. Who are you to demand any kind of response from anyone? Big project or small? You'd probably be less offended if you had a better sense of self awareness about the nature of your relati…

> expecting any kind of response from a vendor with such a large percentage of the market is... kinda arrogant. Are you saying Google is too big to be responsible? Amazon is huge, and I'm able to get a customer service represenatitve in seconds.

Amazon has customers that they sell products to. Google has products (us) that they sell info about to others. It's kind of a big difference.

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#317

Post by glennpratt » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 6:24 PM UTC

RandomBacon wrote: post #314

numbsafari wrote: post #285

> Waiting 4 months for a minimal response from a vendor with > such a large percentage of the market is unacceptable. Umm... expecting any kind of response from a vendor with such a large percentage of the market is... kinda arrogant. Who are you to demand any kind of response from anyone? Big project or small? You'd probably be less offended if you had a better sense of self awareness about the nature of your relati…

> expecting any kind of response from a vendor with such a large percentage of the market is... kinda arrogant. Are you saying Google is too big to be responsible? Amazon is huge, and I'm able to get a customer service represenatitve in seconds.

I don't see your point. For products you pay for, you can get Google support in seconds as well.

This really isn't a customer support question.

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#318

Post by hrktb » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 6:24 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #191

jhasse wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, blame the movie studios, record labels etc. They're the one which require asinine DRM support for web browsers. Google/Microsoft/Apple/Adobe want to support media content, but to do so requires towing the line with the media companies otherwise they refuse to license the content (at least in HD+). Let's say Google, Microsoft and Apple announce that they will be removing any DRM from their browsers on 2020-01-01…

Media companies would rejoice. Since such a coordinated move from Google, Microsoft and Apple would destroy streaming for everyone indiscriminately, it would re-level the playing field and enable everyone to start competing anew. Disney, HBO and others would fork Chromium and add DRM support back, then market the shit out of it. They'd start signing deals with phone and TV manufacturers to get their DRM back, each pr…

The internet before streaming (when downloading postage stamp clips took 3 hours) was close to that described state, and people just exchanged burned CDRs right and left.

Even elderly people were using and watching pirated stuff installed by their kids as they just couldn’t bother.

No DRM support in major browsers would mean pirating becomes the #1 way to see anything again.

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#319

Post by danShumway » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 6:25 PM UTC

numbsafari wrote: post #285

> Waiting 4 months for a minimal response from a vendor with > such a large percentage of the market is unacceptable. Umm... expecting any kind of response from a vendor with such a large percentage of the market is... kinda arrogant. Who are you to demand any kind of response from anyone? Big project or small? You'd probably be less offended if you had a better sense of self awareness about the nature of your relati…

It is a problem that they had to ask.

This line of thought is exactly how companies take over open markets and kill them. Google proposes:

A) "It's fine for DRM to be standardized, because anyone can just ask us to use implementations like Widevine."

then follows up with

B) "We can't possibly be expected to handle every single request that we're given! Give us a break, this is hard."

If Google wants to be the web's gatekeeper for who's allowed to stream video, then yes, they'd better be really stinking attentive to little hobby projects and startups. Because they chose to take on that responsibility.

If they don't want that responsibility, then all they have to do is stop gatekeeping. Distribute Widevine as a binary blob, but come up with some universal terms so that any browser can download and distribute it without asking permission.

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#320

Post by glennpratt » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 6:26 PM UTC

ryanolsonx wrote: post #316

RandomBacon wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> expecting any kind of response from a vendor with such a large percentage of the market is... kinda arrogant. Are you saying Google is too big to be responsible? Amazon is huge, and I'm able to get a customer service represenatitve in seconds.

Amazon has customers that they sell products to. Google has products (us) that they sell info about to others. It's kind of a big difference.

This is such a silly comment repeated in every thread possible. Google and Amazon both have paid customer facing products with human support and advertising. They aren't remotely exclusive.