Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

311–320 of 369 posts

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#311

Post by cwkoss »

JamesBarney wrote: post #259
milesvp wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve never bought this argument about r&d for drug companies, and I have even less faith in the argument after learning recently that much of this r&d is used to modify an existing drug, not to make it better, but to essentially earn another patent on said drug and keep it out of the public domain for longer. Couple this with the fact that there is a large focus on designer drugs, and dependency rather than curative…

One reason there isn't a focus on curative drugs is the current drug system won't pay for it. In an ideal world if it costs 10 million dollars to treat an HIV patient over ten years we should be willing to spend 5 million on a curative drug. But when this actually happens as seen with a hepatitis cure everyone freaks out about the price drug. And thus we can't have nice things.

In an ideal world, the creator would be happy with a fair salary for their work and stop trying to rent-seek a fortune to satisfy their own greed.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#312

Post by cwkoss »

zxcvbn4038 wrote: post #187
lenticular wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with insurance, folks often wind up with six figures of bills out of pocket treating cancer. That's a huge amount for the even most frugal of the lower or middle class.

When my son was born he fit in my hand and spent his first three months in NICU. I guess the nurses thought his survival was questionable so they entered in his name into the computer as “Baby Boy”. A few months later I started getting bills (eventually around $3 million) because there was nobody named “Baby Boy” on my insurance. Calling the insurance to try and correct was a nightmare - wait on hold for an hour, get…

I wonder what percentage of insurance companies' profits are from fraudulent collection attempts like this.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#313

Post by CommieBobDole »

smallgovt wrote: post #144
dylanpyle wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a huge spectrum of what's covered under US insurance plans. Mine, for example, is a "good" plan for the size of company we are, but if I was rushed to a hospital that wasn't in-network in an emergency, or a hospital visit was later deemed "unnecessary" by the insurance company, I could be subject to huge bills.

I see. Are doctors unable to tell you which treatments are defined as “necessary” ahead of time? Or, do you have to do this research yourself? Also, do ‘good’ insurance plans typically deem any signicantly life saving treatment as necessary? Sorry, I’ve always been healthy so have never taken the time to understand this but my parents are getting old.

My understanding is "necessary" is determined by the insurance company, after the fact, and is subject to negotiation.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#314

Post by mywittyname »

tzs wrote: post #284
mywittyname wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can supplement this by improving funding for research in public universities. This will probably provide a better bang for the buck than our current method anyway.

Why specifically public universities? Why not also universities such as Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Caltech, etc.?

So that the resulting patents are made available to the public for free. My impression is that those universities you listed make a great deal of money from the co-ownership of patents produced by their staff.

I'm not saying they should be excluded, but I don't think they would be willing to participate if it meant giving up a cash cow. I could be wrong though.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#315

Post by notabee »

coredog64 wrote: post #241
cletus wrote: post #34

In Australia the Leftist government of Gough Whitlam introduced health-coverage-for-all in 1975 with a scheme called Medibank. In 1984 after a couple of governments, Bob Hawke's Leftist government created the Medicare scheme (Medibank became a government provider of private health insurance), which exists to this day. The most interesting stat I ever heard about Medicare was this: prior to Medicare the number one cau…

A fair chunk of what we in the US would consider “medical bankruptcy” is not the bills, but a consequence of chronic illness. If I’m living paycheck to paycheck, any disruption is going to hurt. That could be unpaid leave, but it could also be disability insurance that doesn’t replace 100% of your income. Regardless of how health insurance is paid for, those are going to happen.

Disability insurance, like other insurance, is motivated to find loopholes with which to deny you. Make sure to read the fine print while you're still well and able.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#316

Post by cwkoss »

nostromo wrote: post #205
gregcrv wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescription_costs “A study has placed the amount spent on drug marketing at 2-19 times that on drug research” Maybe this should be reduced first?

This is flawed thinking. But it's very popular flawed thinking, so you're certainly not alone. :) If marketing has a return on investment (and it does) then marketing spend also increases money available for R&D . Marketing and R&D are not pieces of a fixed pie. Marketing spend grows the entire pie and provides additional dollars for the company to spend on R&D.

There is no moral way for a pharma company to increase demand for its product.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#317

Post by throwaway5752 »

billforsternz wrote: post #292
madeofpalk wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's impossible to say how egregious $14k is I live (well, lived. currently in the UK) in Australia, and the concept of a $14k bill for a sprained thumb is so out of my world. I cannot fathom how anyone would find that even remotely acceptable.

On the weekend my 83 year old mother in law fell and broke her ankle. One hour ambulance ride to a metropolitan ER. Examination and diagnosis by a trauma specialist and an orthopedist. X-ray. Moonboot applied, a night in hospital as community team were assigned to make her adjustments to her apartment for recovery period. Physiotherapist consultation and ongoing support. No insurance. Total cost zero dollars. In New…

I am breaking my word replying, but madeofpalk and you highlight something I failed to distinguish in my comment. I'm talking about "bill" in the sense of summing up the cost of services rendered, like a check in a restaurant. Not policy talk about how is responsible for paying it. All that care for your grandmother (who I hope is okay) isn't zero dollars. It is thousands or tens of thousands of dollars, but she didn't directly pay it. And that is totally cool, and probably a good model. But I was justifying the cost of care the hospital rendered, without touching on who ended up reimbursing them.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#318

Post by tzs »

mywittyname wrote: post #314
tzs wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why specifically public universities? Why not also universities such as Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Caltech, etc.?

So that the resulting patents are made available to the public for free. My impression is that those universities you listed make a great deal of money from the co-ownership of patents produced by their staff. I'm not saying they should be excluded, but I don't think they would be willing to participate if it meant giving up a cash cow. I could be wrong though.

> My impression is that those universities you listed make a great deal of money from the co-ownership of patents produced by their staff.

So do public universities.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#319

Post by cwkoss »

ok_coo wrote: post #299
lotsofpulp wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of the terms you listed are easily understandable concepts clearly explained on healthcare.gov or any health insurance company's website, and they've been a thing for decades. How much clearer can maximum out of pocket be? Edit: I do think in network and out of network should be easier/faster to figure out though.

There are plenty of times when in/out network is an impossible thing to determine or plan for. I had an out patient surgery about a year ago and while my doctor and every admin I talked said that everything would be in network, I still had someone sneak in who was supposedly out of network. Then came the bill of what should have been ~$300 was around $2500. I got that BS waived only by called my doctor's office and t…

If you tell everyone who admits you "I don't consent to any procedures or care from out of network providers", could you sue any out-of-network providers who operate anyway for malpractice?

Or I wonder if a similar "HIPAA trap" could be constructed by categorically revoking consent to share your PMI with any out-of-network individuals and companies?

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#320

Post by rndgermandude »

JamesBarney wrote: post #271
rndgermandude wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of evidence do you have for this claim?

Evidence that if the profits of new drug drops significantly that the money spent on R&D on those new drugs will also drop? Imagine the government decides to tax 80% of all revenue from all technology companies forever. Do you think funding for startups would increase, stay the same, or drop? The obvious answer is drop, but what type of evidence would you expect to support this statement. A study of people taxing tec…

Worst straw man I saw in a long while.

PS: >The obvious answer is drop

No. You "feel" it is "right" and "obvious" even, and it might as well be if we really did that experiment, but humans are pretty bad at predictions.

Post reply on HN