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Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

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Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#311

Post by [deleted] »

patrickthebold wrote: post #227
mbesto wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the process, they're actually paying real people more money Except the OP was talking specifically about the company's plan to lobby. Yes, they're actually paying people more money, but if everyone has that same amount of money then you get wage push inflation. Then everyone loses. This is also why minimum wage discussions always spiral out of control...there really is no good long term solution for setting mini…

> Then everyone loses. Inflation certainly counteracts some of the wage growth, but it's a much stronger claim that it will result in a net lose. Any evidence for that claim?

[deleted]

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#312

Post by graedus »

leetcrew wrote: post #209
maaark wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the individual is worth more than many nation states, I have no problem with singling them out.

even if that person is the richest man in the world, a US senator singling out a private citizen in formal legislation is still "punching down". you really shouldn't cheer for that.

I'm absolutely astonished at this definition of "punching down"!

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#313

Post by kgwgk »

jacquesm wrote: post #252
bufferoverflow wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define "living wage". Please be specific, no vague dancing around.

Living wage: a wage sufficiently high that after paying taxes there is still enough left over for small family or individual to live off when all normal expenses are accounted for based on a workweek no longer than 40 hours in total. That works out to $2400 gross per month (so before taxes) which if you can't recoup it from the work input says more about the company you are working for and their inability to capture…

> small family or individual

What is it, then? Small family or individual?

(Edit: sorry for the annoyance. I just tried to understand how did you work out that the right number is $2400 with such precision. Surely that's the right number everywhere in the US, as well...)

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#314

Post by dvdhnt »

chrisseaton wrote: post #55
tyingq wrote: post #7

Senator Bernie Sanders, for example, recently introduced legislation to end what he calls “corporate welfare” — and it’s pretty clear who he had in mind, since the bill was titled Stop Bad Employers by Zeroing Out Subsidies (BEZOS). Bernie out-marketing AMZN is pretty funny.

Maybe I've got no sense of humour, but I think that's unprofessional and something like bullying, rather than funny. Legislation should surely not target one individual by name like that?

> Maybe I've got no sense of humour

Nah, it wasn't supposed to be funny. It was an explicit call out.

> I think that's unprofessional and something like bullying

Lol, so what is professional, building a business where your employees have to pee in bottles?

> Legislation should surely not target one individual by name like that

I'd usually agree, but under these circumstances, it's absolutely the right thing to do.

We have to change the climate, profiteers can't live under the impression that their "success" is a positive legacy. People need to be held accountable.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#315

Post by tialaramex »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #230
jacquesm wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a difference between everybody being 'rich' and simply paying a living wage. Note how Ford got as big as it was in part not just because he made a damn good automobile but because he paid his employees a wage large enough that they could afford a car. A couple of billionaires less and a higher standard of living for the masses is a good thing.

Define "living wage". Please be specific, no vague dancing around.

Not your OP but...

In the UK there's a foundation that exists to work out what would a fair living wage, to promote this idea to businesses (getting them to commit to pay this to all workers even though the legal minimum is lower) and to make sure that when media people have your question they've got somebody who can confidently provide quotes/ appear on TV/ whatever to explain.

This was sufficiently successful that the government tried to rebrand their arbitrarily chosen (55% of median earnings) minimum wage as a "National Living Wage" but to their annoyance people continue to refer to the foundation's numbers which you know, are based on evidence.

The Living Wage Foundation uses a "basket" system like economists measuring inflation. For example they imagine that a person should rent somewhere to live, so they go find out how much it would typically cost to rent somewhere a person could live in various parts of the country. They figure you will want food, so they work out a set of groceries you might buy, and so on.

Is it possible to live on less? Yes, and it so happens that I do even though I'm fairly wealthy. But it's very obvious that even small changes in my lifestyle would significantly increase my spending, and many of my choices just aren't open to people who aren't wealthy. For example I spend very little on housing, because I own my home outright. But obviously people trying to get a minimum wage cleaning job don't own a house!

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#316

Post by mlevental »

aczerepinski wrote: post #186
mlevental wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>$15/hour is still not much in the international market where Amazon sells its goods. In large parts of Europe it's less than what a warehouse worker makes. i don't understand this comment. while i'm all for warehouse workers getting a fair wage i don't understand the point of comparing a us wage, being paid in the us, to us workers, to foreign workers in foreign economies? yes USD 15 is not enough to survive in Oslo…

I can't even fathom trying to live on 30k. Where I live childcare costs around 20k, so many subsidies would be required for sure. Any little setback like unexpected healthcare or transportation costs would absolutely destroy you.

>I can't even fathom trying to live on 30k.

i have for most of my life lived on less than this. hell i lived on less than this in nyc. it's quite doable if you don't buy new clothes, don't own a car, don't travel, don't eat out, don't go to the movies, etc. you can even afford really bad health insurance. the only real issue is that you can't save enough for retirement (if you're comfortable living this way forever) and you can't save enough to take time off to get more education (votech or higher ed).

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#317

Post by kikki »

chrisseaton wrote: post #55
tyingq wrote: post #7

Senator Bernie Sanders, for example, recently introduced legislation to end what he calls “corporate welfare” — and it’s pretty clear who he had in mind, since the bill was titled Stop Bad Employers by Zeroing Out Subsidies (BEZOS). Bernie out-marketing AMZN is pretty funny.

Maybe I've got no sense of humour, but I think that's unprofessional and something like bullying, rather than funny. Legislation should surely not target one individual by name like that?

The man is worth $164 billion.

I think he'll be OK.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#318

Post by dvdhnt »

Someguywhatever wrote: post #282
smrtinsert wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't want to offend one of handful of people that control the vast majority of wealth in the US. That would be so counter to a democracy?

I don't think the poster you're replying to had that in mind. I think it was more a case of 'you catch more bees with honey' rather than draw the guy's ire unnecessarily, just make a law that does X to help people rather than call it the "F * BEZOS law that also helps people".

Maybe that's true, but parent's point stands.

We don't use honey to deal with poor thieves or people who emotionally abuse their spouses.

Why should we use honey to deal with a rich thief who emotionally abuses an entire labor force?

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#319

Post by xtian »

pkulak wrote: post #286
L_Rahman wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the topic in question is how one of the most powerful companies on Earth chooses to use its power we should strive to always be this cynical. Skepticism of concentrated power is the ur-American political belief. We seem to have forgotten that lately.

If you're willing to shame a company for behavior you don't like, I think you should be prepared to give praise when they do exactly what you just asked for. When you constantly move the goal posts just so that you never have to abandon your righteous anger for even one day, what kind of incentive does that give companies to change their behavior?

An organization which only chooses to do the right thing in response to righteous anger from the public is never going to be worthy of praise.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#320

Post by mikybee93 »

meko wrote: post #302
pkulak wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're willing to shame a company for behavior you don't like, I think you should be prepared to give praise when they do exactly what you just asked for. When you constantly move the goal posts just so that you never have to abandon your righteous anger for even one day, what kind of incentive does that give companies to change their behavior?

Companies don't really deserve praise, practically ever because their motives are ultimately guided by profits. They only act in the interest of revenue. Sometimes those interests align with the employees, but let's not pretend this isn't self preservation on amazon's behalf.

That's silly. You could also say that humans don't really deserve praise since our motives are ultimately guided by our self interest. We only do things to make ourselves feel good, or make ourselves look better. I think that companies have many paths towards self preservation, and that choosing the paths that lead to a better world deserve praise regardless of motive.
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