Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Hire people who aren’t proven

leonardofed.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

311–320 of 460 posts

Re: Hire people who aren’t proven

#311

Post by scarface74 »

kamaal wrote: post #294
scarface74 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can speak about my last 5 jobs over 10 years. Before that, I stayed at one company way too long. Job 1 - I had already been working at one company way too long. But I wasn’t asked any tough technical questions. I explained both my professional experience, and that I got my start as a hobbyist in 86 in 6th grade. To be honest, with my programming experience I was overqualified for the job, but I wanted to get into .…

Companies that consider themselves special generally "Google Interviews". That include bulk of the FAANG class companies, or any body who pays in the same ball park. There are also a huge alumni of the FAANG club, who have a vested interested in doing "Google Interviews". Basically these people have spent so much time(thousands of hours) that the only way they can justify it is by making that interview process that w…

And that’s why I’ve never had any interest in the Silicon Valley/Startup culture.

I’m very happy in a major metropolitan area with a relatively low cost of living anf a good relative salary working as an “Enterprise developer/architect”.

Re: Hire people who aren’t proven

#312

Post by tomnipotent »

sound1 wrote: post #306
tomnipotent wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything you've mentioned are shallow assumptions based on brief exchanges with people. These are not qualities you can effectively suss out in a few hours through an interview process. You can at best get hints, but just like how GPA is not an indicator of a students on-job success neither is an interview - or our conclusion - any better indicators to the candidates success. > Are they full of themselves/assholes…

Hey, if a candiate is ready to be an asshole in an interview, what are the chances that he will be an asshole to his team members to just get that raise or a promotion?

He's not being an asshole. He's probably stressed out and doesn't know how to cope well. This is behavior that can be addressed and improved. After 20 years and hiring 100+ developers through three exits and an IPO, I've only met 1 actual "asshole" that couldn't integrate and needed to be let go.

The problem is that we're too quick to be offended and we look for excuses. I'm in the middle of hiring a business analyst, and my COO didn't want to hire him because he didn't send her a thank you note after an interview (but he did send one to me). She thought he was an asshole. See the problem with that train of thinking?

Everyone is an asshole to someone.

Re: Hire people who aren’t proven

#313

Post by wccrawford »

nasalgoat wrote: post #176

I dunno, I tried to hire based on potential, and I just let them go after six months of him failing to grasp even the basics of the job. He did fine in the interviews but ultimately you cannot fake experience.

We've hired multiple people based on potential. A few of them have worked out astoundingly well. More than that have quit or been let go for not being able to handle the job.

It's pretty demoralizing to let someone go. It's pretty annoying to have them quit in the first week. (Or even the first day!)

But it's pretty awesome when they work out and you get to watch their skill grow over time.

Re: Hire people who aren’t proven

#314

Post by ehlo »

maxxxxx wrote: post #6

I think hiring has become more difficult now that programming has been discovered as a well paying mainstream career. When I started in the 90s most people I worked with had a passion for the craft but now I find we interview a lot of people who have a CS degree just for the career prospects but not out of interest for the craft. I find it much easier to deal with someone who has no relevant experience but cares vs s…

Having started in 2008, I was able to observe this as well actually. As a programmer who does the job because it's somehow in the DNA one needs to change according to that I think. People should probably care less about getting a fancy job or making one success after another at work.

Instead it becomes more useful to be comfortable with the work and maybe not care too much. Eventually people will see how people who breath this stuff are far more comfortable with the work and teams that include them produce far more pleasurable results.

As Programming has become mainstream in some way, far more companies look for coders, even outside of the startup space which creates much more opportunities also for people who know their stuff.

Re: Hire people who aren’t proven

#315

Post by pyb »

alfredmuffin wrote: post #82
ravenstine wrote: post #34

Why would any company have do hire people and train them? Companies these days don't really come to a hault if they're in need of a few developers, and as the market is saturated, they can hold out indefinitely until they believe they have a "rockstar." According to my experience, a lot fewer companies than even a few years ago are in a hurry to talk to you despite them having a job posting and you having more experi…

> the market is saturated Unrelated to your point and this thread, but can someone share some data/evidence on this? (not that I am denying it)

The interview process is getting longer than ever. For instance, getting a homework step before the in-person interview never used to be a thing. Now, it seems to have become commonplace.

Re: Hire people who aren’t proven

#316

Post by zhengwang »

parthdesai wrote: post #35
maxxxxx wrote: post #6

I think hiring has become more difficult now that programming has been discovered as a well paying mainstream career. When I started in the 90s most people I worked with had a passion for the craft but now I find we interview a lot of people who have a CS degree just for the career prospects but not out of interest for the craft. I find it much easier to deal with someone who has no relevant experience but cares vs s…

And what about when companies these days exploit the term "caring"? I like programming as much as the next person here but i'm not going to code 80 hours a day. I also like going to gym and working out, riding my bike, playing soccer and hanging out with friends. Companies these days expect you to have side projects or contribution to popular open source libraries while having a job. Oh and did i mention asking you q…

Join the resistance brother.

http://they.whiteboarded.me/companies-that-dont-whiteboard.h...

Re: Hire people who aren’t proven

#317

Post by duxup »

I wish this was a thing, but it's not.

I worked for a company that did some layoffs of some good people. They're capable, but their bullet points don't match many jobs .... so they're looking for and endlessly long time.

These are great people more than capable of learning. At their previous jobs as a team they did more work than teams 3x their size.

I know a few places that turned them down in favor of folks who matched the bullet points... but not the job.

It's difficult to watch as I see news of places "desperate to find workers"... but refusing to hire good people.

Re: Hire people who aren’t proven

#319

Post by thereare5lights »

snowwrestler wrote: post #29
maxxxxx wrote: post #6

I think hiring has become more difficult now that programming has been discovered as a well paying mainstream career. When I started in the 90s most people I worked with had a passion for the craft but now I find we interview a lot of people who have a CS degree just for the career prospects but not out of interest for the craft. I find it much easier to deal with someone who has no relevant experience but cares vs s…

By all means, you should use whatever criteria you would like to hire your own staff. But in general, I would encourage folks in computer tech industries to be hesitant to assume such a binary approach to evaluating prospects. "Did you code for fun in high school?" might be a useful question now, because software development as a field is so young that high school students can try out significant work easily. But in…

> "Did you code for fun in high school?" might be a useful question now, because software development as a field is so young that high school students can try out significant work easily.

This just makes the same kind of mistakes that the article is saying to avoid.

Re: Hire people who aren’t proven

#320

Post by dmarlow »

asdkhadsj wrote: post #69
laurentl wrote: post #10

> 1. Can this candidate do the job? I'd go so far as to ask: "can this candidate learn to do the job?". In our recent job postings, I've started adding a specific paragraph after the desired qualifications stating more or less "if you don't tick all the boxes above but are motivated to learn and grow, please apply. We'll teach you what you need to do the job" > 2. Will this candidate be motivated? This. Even more tha…

> I'd go so far as to ask: "can this candidate learn to do the job?". In our recent job postings, I've started adding a specific paragraph after the desired qualifications stating more or less "if you don't tick all the boxes above but are motivated to learn and grow, please apply. We'll teach you what you need to do the job" Totally agree. I was involved in the hiring process (new for me) in the last two hires and t…

I agree for most scenarios. However, when building out a team, you can't hire a bunch of people you're going to have to train. Sometimes, like I had to recently, you have to hire an individual that has the skills you need at the moment who can help mentor and help others learn the tools and frameworks needed.
Post reply on HN