Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#311

Post by ithilglin909 » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 6:21 PM UTC

godzillabrennus wrote: post #176

ithilglin909 wrote: post #158

This isn’t popular, but I’d challenge anyone who thinks homelessness in Seattle isn’t primarily an addiction and mental illness problem to go spend a few afternoons in areas with significant homeless populations (3rd Ave in Pioneer Square is a great place, if you need a suggestion). It’s not that affordable housing isn’t a problem in Seattle. I know people who couldn’t live on their own in Seattle anymore due to rent…

Lived in California for close to two years and I agree. The streets may not be the best sample though. There are homeless people who work and live in their cars. Getting government and NIMBYISM out of housing policy will lead to affordable housing and is paramount to fixing this. Opportunity Zone Investments should also help some.

I don't disagree, but in Seattle, the streets are a huge problem.

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

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Post by ericd » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 6:21 PM UTC

noisy_boy wrote: post #216

ericd wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One would be using Amazon's money and would affect Amazon's ability to continue growing and employing more people, the other is using Bezos' money, and does not, except by maybe affecting the share price as he sells more of his holdings. They're not the same thing.

If that is the case, nothing stops him from creating a Bezos Amazon foundation and making every Amazon employee below a certain salary threshold eligible for grants/help etc etc. With all the accounting jugglery they have access to, I'm sure there are multiple ways to making the employees financially happier while satisfying the shareholders thirst for squeezing the last drop from the last penny.

I've never heard of any precedent, do you know of one? In any case, why should Bezos use his personal money to improve Amazon workers' salaries vs. trying to fix a problem for needier people who don't have a job at all? Or trying to make humanity a space faring species (which he spends $1B/year on, IIRC)?

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

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Post by artursapek » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 6:22 PM UTC

kangax wrote: post #285

ageitgey wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed 100%. I live in California which has the same massive homelessness issues as Seattle. I also travel to Europe frequently and have noticed the same stark contrast where they seem to do much better at this. To try to understand why homelessness feels so much worse an California than in Europe, I did some very basic research (which I also posted on a similar thread once before). The numbers are shocking: San Fran…

I'm wondering why homelessness is not as large in NYC? The prices here are as high as in SF. Is it due to the slower rate of a price increase? Colder weather?

NYC has a harsh climate in the winter. You do see a fair amount of homeless junkies hanging out in the summer in places like the East Village (don't let your kid run around barefoot in Tompkins Square Park!). The difference is with San Francisco's climate, it's possible to just be permanently homeless in the streets 365 days a year.

I've also noticed a different mentality people have when dealing with homeless between the two cities; in NYC there was once a guy camped out on the stoop of my building. I reported it and my landlord immediately called law enforcement and got him off the stoop. He was gone by the afternoon. In SF, there are homeless people sleeping _everywhere_, even in front of luxury stores like Prada. I once saw a guy laying on the grass at a playground in Chinatown, doing what looked like a cross between a seizure and masturbation. Nobody even looked at him, they just completely ignored him. It left me stunned. For some reason, people in SF just tolerate it...

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

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Post by artursapek » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 6:23 PM UTC

passivepinetree wrote: post #300

kangax wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm wondering why homelessness is not as large in NYC? The prices here are as high as in SF. Is it due to the slower rate of a price increase? Colder weather?

NYC has a homeless problem that's actually worse than San Francisco [0]: Their homeless population in 2017 was upwards of 76,000 people. Where are you getting the information that New York's problem isn't as bad? [0]: https://www.wnyc.org/story/more-homeless-people-live-new-yor...

> Where are you getting the information that New York's problem isn't as bad?

He must have visited the city and walked around. The population might be larger, but the problem is less egregious in NYC; we don't just let them camp out in the streets and rule the city.

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

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Post by ithilglin909 » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 6:23 PM UTC

jasaloo wrote: post #295

ithilglin909 wrote: post #158

This isn’t popular, but I’d challenge anyone who thinks homelessness in Seattle isn’t primarily an addiction and mental illness problem to go spend a few afternoons in areas with significant homeless populations (3rd Ave in Pioneer Square is a great place, if you need a suggestion). It’s not that affordable housing isn’t a problem in Seattle. I know people who couldn’t live on their own in Seattle anymore due to rent…

Right. And famine is just a location issue. the 1980s called, bro-- it wants its shoddy Neoliberal think tank talking points back.

Why are you assuming I'm a bro just cause I'm on hacker news? 1950s are calling you.

Get back to me when you have something logical to say, not just ad hominems...

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

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Post by benatkin » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 6:23 PM UTC

fjsolwmv wrote: post #205

ithilglin909 wrote: post #158

This isn’t popular, but I’d challenge anyone who thinks homelessness in Seattle isn’t primarily an addiction and mental illness problem to go spend a few afternoons in areas with significant homeless populations (3rd Ave in Pioneer Square is a great place, if you need a suggestion). It’s not that affordable housing isn’t a problem in Seattle. I know people who couldn’t live on their own in Seattle anymore due to rent…

How do you know people don't become mentally ill or homeless after losing their home and their life spiralling out of control? Or perhaps that if you have a support structure you can manage mental illness? If you don't have money or friends, what group housing would you find? Why would you move to a different city, away from everyone you know, if you don't have a job to pay bills?

People could also just call all homeless people mentally ill. I mean, they didn't pick themselves up by their bootstraps, right?

I think it's a cop-out to call most of the non-drug-addicted ones mentally ill, as a way of lumping them in with the drug addicts.

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#317

Post by DoreenMichele » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 6:24 PM UTC

gaahrdner wrote: post #305

DoreenMichele wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had a class on Homelessness and Public Policy and I've been homeless. Addiction is not, per se, a major root cause of homelessness. There are people with addictions who have careers. If addiction caused homelessness, then getting addicted would land people on the street as a routine consequence. People see homeless individuals do X and conclude "X causes homelessness" or is otherwise some inherent trait of "thos…

Addiction is absolutely a major cause of homelessness.

No. Addiction is rooted in the same intractable personal problems that lead to homelessness.

People on the street are often using street drugs in place of prescription medication, sometimes by preference because, for example, they have a psych diagnosis and street drugs have preferable side effects to the medication they are supposed to be on.

I knew a bipolar man somewhat well who was homeless. He smoked marijuana in preference to the prescription drugs he refused to take. He was unemployable due to his undamaged mental health issue, not because he toked. Toking was just how he got by. He wouldn't have been more functional without pot. He likely would have been less functional.

We still don't have a slam dunk cure for most mental health issues. As long as this remains true, it is problematic to act like addiction is not merely a side effect of the problem and, instead, to pretend it somehow causes the problems an individual has.

Saying addiction is the problem is a little like blaming chemotherapy for ruining someone's life and not acknowledging the underlying cancer as a problem.

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

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Post by 8bb10652e » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 6:25 PM UTC

ithilglin909 wrote: post #166

ithilglin909 wrote: post #158

This isn’t popular, but I’d challenge anyone who thinks homelessness in Seattle isn’t primarily an addiction and mental illness problem to go spend a few afternoons in areas with significant homeless populations (3rd Ave in Pioneer Square is a great place, if you need a suggestion). It’s not that affordable housing isn’t a problem in Seattle. I know people who couldn’t live on their own in Seattle anymore due to rent…

Before you downvote me, please, go hang out in Pioneer Square in the middle of the day.

Your argument makes no sense. "Go where the mentally ill homeless people hang out, therefore most homeless people are mentally ill." Homeless who are not mentally ill do not congregate together (why would you want to hang out with other people specifically because they are homeless?), mentally ill people and drug addicts like to hang out together.

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#319

Post by jlarocco » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 6:26 PM UTC

ithilglin909 wrote: post #158

This isn’t popular, but I’d challenge anyone who thinks homelessness in Seattle isn’t primarily an addiction and mental illness problem to go spend a few afternoons in areas with significant homeless populations (3rd Ave in Pioneer Square is a great place, if you need a suggestion). It’s not that affordable housing isn’t a problem in Seattle. I know people who couldn’t live on their own in Seattle anymore due to rent…

First of all, those people are only one part of the homeless population. Not all homeless people are drugged out or mentally ill, and the ones who aren't don't want to be around the addicts and mentally ill any more than anybody else. You're more or less seeing a self-selected group of the worst elements of the homeless population.

And I didn't see any details in the article, but it'd a good thing if some of this donation goes towards helping homeless people with addiction and mental illness. They're definitely contributing factors for some people.

Re: Amazon's Bezos Launches $2B Fund to Help the Homeless

#320

Post by chillacy » Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 6:27 PM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #279

stass wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking other people money by force is even more dangerous for democracy and economy.

Taken to its logical conclusion, this idea means we shouldn't have any government at all.

Not sure if that’s the line of reasoning. A well known danger of democracy is rule by mob. For instance a tough thing to get right is protecting rights of minority groups. If everyone voted for their own direct benefit, we’d just be locking minorities up and taking their assets with power of the majority. Luckily doesn’t seem to happen much.