Nearly Half of Americans Are Lonely • Hacker News Board

Re: Nearly Half of Americans Are Lonely

#311

Post by scotty79 » Sat, Aug 04, 2018, 12:59 PM UTC

skookumchuck wrote: post #227

Rotdhizon wrote: post #9

I think a huge factor is the growing theme of social interaction being unacceptable. Back in the day you could walk up to and make friends with almost anyone, it wasn't weird to interact with strangers, thus making new acquaintances. Modern society stigmatizes that kind of interaction, don't talk to people you don't know if you don't want to be ostracized. You could want to befriend someone in a crowd, but come up wi…

I was sitting on a bench waiting for the bus in Denmark one day, and a very attractive young lady came up and said she'd like to give me a hug. I'm old, and I was instantly very suspicious this was some sort of scam, or she had a partner that was going to rob me, or whatever. I couldn't believe she was just trying to be nice. She talked with me for a while, and was not put off by my suspiciousness. Eventually I agree…

I was once walking down the street in the middle of the day. There were 3 young men very cheerful and little bit drunk walking towards me. As I was preparing to pass them, bit worried if I'll have any trouble with them one of them in drunken cordiality looked at me and opened arms for a hug. We briefly hugged smiled and continue going our separate ways. Experience was very weird but pleasent. I think bit of positive human contact with no strings attached is missing from my usual daily life.

Re: Nearly Half of Americans Are Lonely

#312

Post by wool_gather » Sat, Aug 04, 2018, 2:41 PM UTC

dunpeal wrote: post #100

gwbas1c wrote: post #61

Honestly, I've never had problems talking to random strangers. Some of my best friends were random strangers at first. IMO, the problem has nothing to do with the internet. Instead, the problem has more to do with poorly controlling marketing and homelessness. Political correctness also takes a toll. When I lived in the Bay Area, most of the time I was randomly approached, "on the street," it was from a homeless pers…

> But then, what about being in stores, malls, ect? I then need to put up defenses against aggressive marketing. There's aggressive marketing in the street too. Most often when someone approaches me on the street, they're trying to get money out of me. Either they're panhandlers, or they're selling me something, or seeking donations of some sort - which are all really the same thing. The only exception is if they wan…

> So ultimately, strangers approaching us in public areas are looking to get something out of us

This matches my experience as well (I suspect it might not in less urban areas, though). It's quite frustrating.

I also resent the fact that the people who are accosting me like this usually have the expectation that I owe them my attention. I'm pretty good at brushing them off/ignoring them, and I've seen quite a few get genuinely offended that I'm evading their pitch. Which is offensive to me in turn: they're trying to take advantage of my natural inclination to be social/respond to another human, and they're mad because I didn't fall for it? It's a parasitic situation. Sadly, I also agree with you that there's not really any way to fix it. The well is just poisoned...

Re: Nearly Half of Americans Are Lonely

#313

Post by wool_gather » Sat, Aug 04, 2018, 2:49 PM UTC

mattmanser wrote: post #217

abledon wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thing about meetup.com which messes up touches on your point. Even though you may feel down... you get those small 'silces' of energy... even if they are brief.... You need to hit that 30 minute window of feeling pumped to go out and socialize. Feeling pumped? Yeah ! lets do this! goes on meetup.com .... F * the next cool thing is Sept 2. 89 hours away..... 30 minute window of feeling pumped to go socialize fades awa…

You're overthinking this. Pick one, put it in your diary, and go to it. No excuses. In those 30 minutes of action, commit yourself to that future action. Make it easy, in those 30 minutes plan your outfit, how to get there, look up the venue on a map, plan how much cash you'll take or what cards or whatever. Whatever excuses you come up with usually, plan against them. The group will usually say how to find them in t…

This is 100% correct. The problem is that this mental state is just completely fucked in this regard: you know that this advice is good. You know it'll help. You know you'll feel better if you do it; you'll have fun, and it'll even be easier next time!

But the little monster still talks you out of it at the last minute, with your hand on the doorknob to leave the house.

It can be beaten, and like I said, your advice is absolutely correct. But -- in my experience, at least -- reasoning about the situation is only part of the solution. Seeing the path does not automatically mean you will follow the path.

Re: Nearly Half of Americans Are Lonely

#314

Post by techopoly » Sat, Aug 04, 2018, 3:34 PM UTC

androidgirl wrote: post #272

techopoly wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry to hear this. I used to have major struggles like this when I was younger. I think people like us are very much in our own heads, maybe too much. Sometimes it's good for us to just jump out there and socialize. Sometimes all it takes is to pretend to be outgoing for 2 hours at a time. Go to a conference for work, or play sports at the gym, whatever. Of course it's a challenge every time, and I'm oversimplif…

Thank you so much for the kind words! I appreciate the "I've been there, here's what worked" outlook as well. I'll start working to implement some of these practices in my life. Finding a good organization sounds like a great idea and something I need to just do. There's a makerspace a few blocks from my work. I think it's time to email them about membership!

You’re welcome! That’s a good first step. Best of luck in all your endeavors!

Re: Nearly Half of Americans Are Lonely

#315

Post by Fricken » Sat, Aug 04, 2018, 3:37 PM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #304

Fricken wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern society doesn't overtly stigmatize social interaction, it encourages social isolation at a structural level. Car dependent suburban sprawl is designed to minimize the number of necessary interactions you need to have with strangers to get through your day. As a society we've gone to great lengths to avoid other people. The miracle of modern civilization is that you no longer need to be a part of a community an…

Car dependent suburban sprawl maximizes the time that members of the same family spend together, at the expense of interaction with strangers. Both have their place in different phases of life. Many parents gladly give up interactions with strangers on public transit in exchange for the extra hours with their children that fast personal transport enables. It’s a terrible place to live alone when young and single, but…

Cars don't save any time. Mass transit, cycling and walking in a city optimized for those modes is just as fast. It's also safer, cheaper, better for mental and physical health, better for the environment, upward economic mobility, and aesthetically nicer. The personal automobile is for signalling status and avoiding poor/black people, which is worth more than all those other things.

Re: Nearly Half of Americans Are Lonely

#316

Post by TheCoelacanth » Sat, Aug 04, 2018, 5:43 PM UTC

Nav_Panel wrote: post #47

fipple wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of that is social interaction being less necessary. My dad made many friends asking random people on the street for directions to a gas station or for a restaurant recommendation. Now we get that all from our phones.

Do you see internet social interaction as being a sufficient replacement for meatspace social interaction?

It's not a sufficient replacement, it's just a much lower effort replacement.

Re: Nearly Half of Americans Are Lonely

#317

Post by jjeaff » Sat, Aug 04, 2018, 6:58 PM UTC

dunpeal wrote: post #100

gwbas1c wrote: post #61

Honestly, I've never had problems talking to random strangers. Some of my best friends were random strangers at first. IMO, the problem has nothing to do with the internet. Instead, the problem has more to do with poorly controlling marketing and homelessness. Political correctness also takes a toll. When I lived in the Bay Area, most of the time I was randomly approached, "on the street," it was from a homeless pers…

> But then, what about being in stores, malls, ect? I then need to put up defenses against aggressive marketing. There's aggressive marketing in the street too. Most often when someone approaches me on the street, they're trying to get money out of me. Either they're panhandlers, or they're selling me something, or seeking donations of some sort - which are all really the same thing. The only exception is if they wan…

I don't think agreddibe marketers or panhandlers has anything to do with not being social in public. No one just walks up to you to strike up a friendship. That would always be weird.

When you socialize in public it would be while waiting in line together, or asking the person next to you at restaurant what they are having, or asking the person at the grocery store whether they think that product is better.

If you walk directly up to someone and it isn't a natural connection, everyone will always assume your trying to sell them something or bother them in some way.

Re: Nearly Half of Americans Are Lonely

#318

Post by CM30 » Sat, Aug 04, 2018, 10:26 PM UTC

A bit late now, but part of me wonders whether the advances in communication technology have made it too easy to keep in contact with people we already know, and whether that's caused part of this issue.

Think about it. In the olden days, if you went to college or moved to a new, somewhat distant town or country, that was it for your current social life. You lost contact with your existing friends, and you had to find new friends at the new location in order to not be lonely again.

That lack of communication forced you to meet new people on a regular basis, and likely made college/university a good place for it for so many young people. After all, you couldn't talk to your hometown friends as easily now, and your family was cut off too. You had to meet new people.

Smartphones and social media sites and other such things make it so you can easily keep up with the people you already know, and spend all your free time talking to those you're already in contact with. The need for finding new crowds has basically died.

Re: Nearly Half of Americans Are Lonely

#319

Post by dunpeal » Sat, Aug 04, 2018, 10:51 PM UTC

jjeaff wrote: post #317

dunpeal wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But then, what about being in stores, malls, ect? I then need to put up defenses against aggressive marketing. There's aggressive marketing in the street too. Most often when someone approaches me on the street, they're trying to get money out of me. Either they're panhandlers, or they're selling me something, or seeking donations of some sort - which are all really the same thing. The only exception is if they wan…

I don't think agreddibe marketers or panhandlers has anything to do with not being social in public. No one just walks up to you to strike up a friendship. That would always be weird. When you socialize in public it would be while waiting in line together, or asking the person next to you at restaurant what they are having, or asking the person at the grocery store whether they think that product is better. If you wa…

> If you walk directly up to someone and it isn't a natural connection, everyone will always assume your trying to sell them something or bother them in some way.

The point of my comment is why this is happening. The reason "everyone" (in the US) assume that is because that is typically the reason. Because the typical people who approach us in the street are panhandlers and marketers.

It's like the early year of SPAM. When email just started, messages would usually receive attention, since they were usually from genuine people looking to connect. Then SPAM started, and many people started ignoring email completely, to the point it became effectively dysfunctional as a communication medium. It required an extensive, aggressive campaign to fight off SPAM, until email because a functional medium again.

In the same way, if somehow panhandlers and marketers stopped approaching us, we would be more open to socialize in public spaces, because we wouldn't assume (quite appropriately, as of now) that any stranger who tries to talk to us is just looking to get something from us.

Re: Nearly Half of Americans Are Lonely

#320

Post by dunpeal » Sat, Aug 04, 2018, 10:55 PM UTC

wool_gather wrote: post #312

dunpeal wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But then, what about being in stores, malls, ect? I then need to put up defenses against aggressive marketing. There's aggressive marketing in the street too. Most often when someone approaches me on the street, they're trying to get money out of me. Either they're panhandlers, or they're selling me something, or seeking donations of some sort - which are all really the same thing. The only exception is if they wan…

> So ultimately, strangers approaching us in public areas are looking to get something out of us This matches my experience as well (I suspect it might not in less urban areas, though). It's quite frustrating. I also resent the fact that the people who are accosting me like this usually have the expectation that I owe them my attention. I'm pretty good at brushing them off/ignoring them, and I've seen quite a few get…

> This matches my experience as well (I suspect it might not in less urban areas, though).

Indeed, I lived in less urban areas, and people are more open to socialize there.

As for the rest, I agree and encountered the same as well. What they are doing is parasitic, but they are naturally offended if you ignore them. For marketers especially, consider that every time someone ignores them, it means they failed at their job. It's a bad situation for them, and for us.