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Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

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Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#311

Post by tonyb »

smileysteve wrote: post #136
ashishb wrote: post #109

https://www.bostonfed.org/publications/public-policy-discuss... " On average, each cash-using household pays $149 to card-using households and each card-using household receives $1,133 from cash users every year. Because credit card spending and rewards are positively correlated with household income, the payment instrument transfer also induces a regressive transfer from low-income to high-income households in gener…

I don't buy this because it discounts the high costs of cash controls. Cash has high costs that likely make electronic forms of payment competitive. You have - Employees skimming the till; - Theft insurance for a safe, the nightly amount in the safe - Managers balancing the cash registers with change/safe - Armored trucks picking up the money (2-3 men guarding the transfer) - Banks processing the money - Employee tim…

Going "cash-less" is a growing trend in the restaurant world. I know several restaurant owners that are moving that direction for the reasons you listed. Time is one of the biggest ones, you have to have someone (normally a manager) dedicated to cash management before opening and after closing.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#312

Post by clan »

kasey_junk wrote: post #274
clan wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Acceptance not required by law and no mandated monopoly. The card was introduced in 1983 and the law which helped the card stated that they could not charge any transaction fees to the consumer. It became popular with the consumers because there is no difference between cash and the debit card. It was popular with retail because it was cheap to handle. Consumers would typically get the card for free from the bank. If…

Who pays for the processing equipment? Clearing? Collection? The banks were running it as a loss leader?

Retailers.

There where agreements in place to ensure reasonable costs. This made it cheap to use. And it was so popular it surely did make a profit.

Then the big banks realized they where helping the smaller banks and even more profit could be made by themselves. Hence a lot of lobbying for a "liberal" market.

We still have the card. But slightly more expensive. Not sure for how long. I do not look forward to a future with global players setting the rules on "market" terms.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#314

Post by maroonblazer »

dalbasal wrote: post #294
randomsearch wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very interesting quote from Musk: “saying you like moats is another way of saying you like oligopolies”. I like Musk’s focus on innovation, and I also thought this was interesting because it came from one of the PayPal+ group.

To bring in another PayPal toe-in... Peter Thiel made some waves when he said the whole point of being a business is to create a "monopoly." His definition of "monopoly" is more similar to Buffet's "moat" than the legal definition of "monopoly." There's something very valuable in those guys' intentionally provocative choice of words.

>There's something very valuable in those guys' intentionally provocative choice of words.

This isn't new thinking via Thiel or Musk. Michael Porter detailed this in his "Five Forces" article in 1979.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter%27s_five_forces_analysi...

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#315

Post by phkahler »

tonyb wrote: post #311
smileysteve wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy this because it discounts the high costs of cash controls. Cash has high costs that likely make electronic forms of payment competitive. You have - Employees skimming the till; - Theft insurance for a safe, the nightly amount in the safe - Managers balancing the cash registers with change/safe - Armored trucks picking up the money (2-3 men guarding the transfer) - Banks processing the money - Employee tim…

Going "cash-less" is a growing trend in the restaurant world. I know several restaurant owners that are moving that direction for the reasons you listed. Time is one of the biggest ones, you have to have someone (normally a manager) dedicated to cash management before opening and after closing.

>> Time is one of the biggest ones, you have to have someone (normally a manager) dedicated to cash management before opening and after closing.

When I eat with a group of people, it's very common that I'm the only one who pays cash. It's also very common that taking care of my bill is the fastest of them all. It's easiest on the wait-persons time. But since the owners generally fuck over the wait staff anyway, it's no surprise that they don't care about their time.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#316

Post by justinph »

bit_logic wrote: post #169

This seems like a missed opportunity for Google Pay and Apple Pay. Before smartphones and NFC, it would've been too much for every merchant to make their own card, nobody is going to carry that many cards. But imagine if Target, Walmart, Best Buy, etc. made store cards and they all integrated with Google/Apple Pay. When a customer enters the store, the app could automatically pick the right card. Google and Apple jus…

Target's RedCard is a significant advantage they've built over all their competitors. They don't have to pay the fees, customers get a discount, and they get easy access to the data on your purchases. I'm surprised more retailers don't do it.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#317

Post by mxuribe »

mhb wrote: post #313

Maybe this is crazy, but it seems like Google or Amazon could compete with a credit card network with lower merchant fees. Besides being great, it would be great PR.

Technically, i'm sure you are right. But, to give these guys even more of my data - in this case my other spending habits? Ugh.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#318

Post by [deleted] »

MrEldritch wrote: post #146
pseingatl wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laws can be changed. An entity like Amazon can lobby for a change. Donate money to politicians likely to vote for a change. Call for a change on the editorial page of the Washington Post. Remember, once upon a time, there was but one phone company. Then the law changed... Interstate/branch banking was illegal. Then the law changed. Amazon could probably set up a members-(i.e., customers) only credit union without too…

>Despite the pain, I still think Walmart should’ve acquired and rebranded a bank, and offered financial products. I just wanted to point out that this was actually significantly more difficult than the parent comment may have realized.

[deleted]

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#319

Post by CSMastermind »

mannykannot wrote: post #269
goc_ wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a question of liking moats or not. Nobody has found any other routes to scale quickly. The moat is fundamental to producing the kind of scaling we see today.

Scaling quickly is not the greater good.

Sometimes it is.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#320

Post by thesimon »

maaark wrote: post #248
daemin wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Australia the government put in legislation to cap the maximum credit card surcharge that a merchant could charge the customer to the actual fee that they pay on the card. When I was there I remember things like $10 or $20 minimum and also anywhere up to 5-10% surcharge for paying with a card.

The UK did too. The cap is 0.

Well, the EU did.
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