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A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

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Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#311

Post by ezoe »

bsder wrote: post #267
ezoe wrote: post #209

This situation is not caused by complicated Japanese input methods. This is caused by young generation who don't use traditional computer with the keyboard. It's another digital divide. Yes. The generation who didn't have a personal computer in their young age is starting to retire. Current 30s-40s years old workers are varies on computer literacy but many had a personal computer when they were a student. I belong to…

> The smartphone is inefficient and restricted computer. It's worse than this. The smartphone is such a complete abstraction with "apps" that modern teenagers don't even have a correct concept of "computer". The fact that an "app" is actually a recipe and that something (aka a computer) needs to execute that recipe is a revelation.

Yes, the "app" ecosystem is ridiculous.

I think I don't need to remind you this. But most apps are nothing but browser wrapper for their specific URL. Most of them doesn't require a special purpose user-agent at all. Just standard web browser should suffice.

These days, when people hear there exits a new fashionable web service, they immediately search the "app" for that from locked-in app distribution platform offered by Apple or Google. Install the top result(hopefully the official app) without the doubt, and use that web service via the app even though that app is straightforward browser wrapper and nothing requires to be an app.

So in order to reach the mass, web services of today has no choice but to release the corresponding app even though their web service is 100% usable from ordinary web browser.

The smartphone makes people stupid.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#312

Post by emodendroket »

natch wrote: post #273
emodendroket wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have that. They do have handwriting recognition.

Well the question was what do they have that comes closest. They do have a lot more than just pinyin and handwriting. If you don't know, it's fine to just say that, or stay away from the discussion, especially when you seem to be answering with such certainty on something where you didn't read the question.

They have nothing that resembles the tenkey input because they have nothing that resembles kana, unless you want to count bopomofo. If you want to make some correction, rather than just condescending to me, feel free.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#313

Post by RugnirViking »

messe wrote: post #262
crazygringo wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's more awkward. But it's also not hard. And if a phone is all you've got, and you don't have the money to spend on a computer on top of it... then you make do. It's not the end of the world. It's fine.

That's a fair point. I know it's the not the end of the world, but I guess I was just hoping to be shown a particularly efficient method of touchscreen input.

Also: to further the point, it is possible but even more invonvenient to fix mistakes and reflow text on a physical page - but that doesn't mean that all text written on paper is stream-of-conciousness

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#314

Post by xemdetia »

Baeocystin wrote: post #232
7ewis wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started touch typing at around 18, after just forcing myself as I knew it'd be beneficial in the long run. I could type around 60wpm using two fingers, I know where they keys are... Just not how to use every finger! Now I touch type 'properly' I can get close to 100wpm. My speed has kind of plateaued now though unfortunately.

Do you really find a benefit much past ~60wpm? Unless you're just transcribing, I would think compositional speed is the limiting factor.

A lot of the reason why I personally find >60 wpm difficult is similar to the UI feedback studies that come up on HN from time to time. If I avert my gaze and let my typing become a secondary act it's not as bad, but there are some UI situations where the keypress and UI display can be more than 6-12 characters behind so watching it gives me the feeling that I gave miskeyed something or the software froze. It's part of the reason why I prefer key chord driven autocomplete compared to in place autocomplete from the way it can be visually distracting while trying to keep up.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#315

Post by samatman »

dorchadas wrote: post #113
LyndsySimon wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use fountain pens exclusively and take pride in my penmanship. I also love my Apple Pencil - it lets me use and practice my skills, and is a very good approximation of several different types of nibs. Even my older Wacom tablets weren’t as good.

Any tips on improving penmanship? Mine has always been absolutely horrible, which stinks as there's lots of things I prefer to write out by hand. Most things, in fact, unless it needs to be electronic.

Learn a different script.

Right now you know one script: whatever scrawl you learned as a youth. Pick up something else, preferably a print hand rather than cursive.

There are a ton of options! Here are some examples: http://medievalwriting.50megs.com/scripts/scrindex.htm

A print hand lets you focus on correctness. Once you have some confidence, if you like, you can tackle another cursive hand, such as Spencer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spencerian_script

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#316

Post by rimliu »

curuinor wrote: post #46
21 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other hand, a toddler who explores the world as if it is a touch screen has been given way too much time on a touch screen. So there is definitely a problem there. You are making quite an assumption here. People of many centuries ago would also say that we raise our kids in a wrong way, because we don't teach them how to survive in the wild or how to work a potato field.

A computer is a machine of profound alienation from the actual ability to create and the ability to use, unlike anything someone who survives in the wild or farms would do. Many people will die having used computers for 10 hours a day but not being able to really act with computers and create with computers. This is unacceptable.

So, for those on the farm: should they dig earth by hand, with a spade, use horse-drawn plow? Tractors should be a big no-no, by this logic.

Actual ability to create is in the brain of the creator. Anything else is just media ant tools.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#317

Post by btschaegg »

Double_a_92 wrote: post #296
btschaegg wrote: post #75

An interesting part in the article: > Lena-Sophie Mueller, of the German nonprofit Initiative D21, pointed out: “Timetables (for railways) are no longer available in paper form. More and more services are based on the Internet [...]” This has been going on for quite a while. I distinctly remember being stranded in Düsseldorf a few years back. I was at the train station, looking for a train (I knew the destination but…

All the stations I've been to have digital displays with all the trains in the next hours.

Remember that this is anecdata at best :)

I've been to Stuttgart recently and had no such problems at the train station there. I just wanted to point out that this phenomenon is not all that new.

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#319

Post by lesss365 »

About two years ago, while carrying out user testing at Hunter College on a prototype for their site redesign/build (yet to be implemented due to bureaucracy...), we observed several test users default to tapping on the laptop screen to navigate. For that round the test users were students, and the ones who defaulted to tapping were of a younger age. Even after making the initial realization that the screen didn't have touch capabilities, every few moments they would still touch the screen in an attempt to tap navigation elements or to scroll a page.

Personally, it was kind of a shock to witness, especially seeing that it was safe to assume that there was less than a 10 year difference in our ages. It got me thinking about a near future possibility of keyboardless computers, and the dread of writing code without one. Though it's unlikely, it struck the fear of god in me haha

Re: A new digital divide: Young people who can’t use keyboards

#320

Post by astura »

makapuf wrote: post #205
astura wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW I had a typewriter in ~1995 that actually had a backspace. It had a white ribbon, similar to white out and it kept a small history buffer so it knew which key to erase. It was an amazing invention.

Yup i also were enthusiast with my grandfather modern typewriter which had a one line alphanumeric LCD where you could type one line, re read and correct it and it would print it only when you pressed return.

I think mine had this feature too.
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