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European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

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Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#311

Post by frockington »

xg15 wrote: post #213
repolfx wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They probably wouldn't. Do you imagine the EU would force every ISP to block Google web search, Gmail, etc? Beyond being technically difficult I do not believe the EU currently has the power to create a Great Firewall of Europe like that.

Why would the EU do that? The EU demands fines, nothing else. If Google wanted to leave the market to not pay them, it would be their job to geoblock every EU IP from using Google services.

How would it be Googles responsibility? Asking nicely would only get you so far and honestly with GDPR and now this, the EU is becoming more and more of a liability

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#313

Post by archi42 »

r_singh wrote: post #287
archi42 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's hefty. But this does affect all major iPhone markets, not the EU alone. So they probably (maybe. I guess.) only put a fraction of that on the bill.

It's also worth noting that it's $3B per year that Google pays Apple though . https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/14/google-paying-apple-3-billio...

Good point. But I think if Google/Alphabet does not comply, the commission could fine them again. But that's difficult to judge now... All we consumers can do is wait for Google's next move and where it leads from there.

But generally, this is a step in the right direction. As much as I am a fan of early Google and the great services they offer, a big part of me doesn't like the privacy-nightmare conglomerate they became.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#314

Post by frockington »

nl wrote: post #132
garmaine wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other commentators are saying the fine is between 1/3 to a half of google’s profits. I sincerely doubt the EU represents more than that share of google’s revenues. But of course I doubt they would pull out as this is a one time thing.

You are comparing a proportion of one year of Google's profit and all EU revenue for all time.

Couldn't they still generate revenue from ads and services in Europe? The EU could block Android phones but its not like they are going to build a firewall.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#315

Post by ahartmetz »

SparklingCotton wrote: post #253
cageface wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple defenders will dismiss market share when comparing Android and iOS and claim that share of profits is all that counts. But they're happy to use market share to justify sanctions against Google. You can't have it both ways folks. The fact is that Apple controls enough of the users that everybody wants that they have at least as much influence as Google does in mobile. That they've chosen to protect their fat pro…

> If the EU wants to preserve any credibility .. It's the other way around. EU is building credibility that seems to be lacking elsewhere by penalizing anti-competitive behavior.

Due to regulatory capture and states' legitimate self-interest, EU keeps US corporations in check and vice versa. Better than nothing.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#316

Post by Dayshine »

endorphone wrote: post #305
Dayshine wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's read the law: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... >Article 102 >Any abuse by one or more undertakings of a dominant position within the internal market or in a substantial part of it shall be prohibited as incompatible with the internal market in so far as it may affect trade between Member States. >Such abuse may, in particular, consist in: >b) limiting production, markets or techni…

How is that not clearly breaching d? They're a part of the same suite of apps that provide the "Android experience" (Google experience, whatever -- the thing that most consumers think of when they consider Android). They manifestly have a profound connection with each other. And let's be clear here lest there be any confusion -- zero customers want a vendor to do anything different, and the only reason some vendors w…

>And if we just go around clubbing everything coarsely, why does my BMW have a BMW entertainment system

Because BMW don't have market dominance in either the car industry or the entertainment system industry. If they used dominance in one to affect the other, they would be in breach of that legislation.

>This is absolutely not at all clear cut. It is incredibly nuanced

So how do you explain Google's non-compliance when explicitly and clearly informed that they were in breach over two years ago?

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#317

Post by SparklingCotton »

rusk wrote: post #129
oliwarner wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU's demand was that Ireland collect that tax from Apple. And blindingly obvious to Apple , the benefactor. When somebody says, "Hey come and do your stuff here, we'll only charge you 0.005% corp tax!" you should expect that their wider financial governing body (who is losing out severely because of a deal like that) might have something to say about it.

You think it was blindingly obvious to Apple that they would have had to pay this tax eventually? Seems to me and everyone else it was an attempt at a stroke. You're alleging that Apple were a passive actor. You saw that thing in the ICIJ Jersey papers leak where Apple went round the world actively seeking jurisdictions that would twist their tax rules to suit them? https://www.irishtimes.com/business/apple-s-cash-mo…

It should have been obvious to Apple that they were receiving illegal subsidies, given that they were taxed differently than other companies.

"The Irish government agreed a deal with Apple in 1991 to only tax a certain bracket of its earnings" http://uk.businessinsider.com/how-apple-managed-to-get-its-t...

To me it's pretty obvious that Tim Cook will burn in hell :-).

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#318

Post by luispedrocoelho »

As a matter of law, the EC may be right, but as a matter of user experience, the idea that the Android market suffers from not having enough OEM-installed software on devices is a bit of a stretch. In all android phones/tablets I have seen there are a few shitty OEM apps that I have never found to be even close in quality to the google versions.

The EC claims that google have "denied European consumers the benefits of effective competition in the important mobile sphere", but I fear this will mean that cheap Android phones will have a shitty OEM-branded webbrowser and some random search engine link.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#319

Post by chii »

xg15 wrote: post #213
repolfx wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They probably wouldn't. Do you imagine the EU would force every ISP to block Google web search, Gmail, etc? Beyond being technically difficult I do not believe the EU currently has the power to create a Great Firewall of Europe like that.

Why would the EU do that? The EU demands fines, nothing else. If Google wanted to leave the market to not pay them, it would be their job to geoblock every EU IP from using Google services.

Google's profit center (adsense and all related ad selling) would not exist in europe, and therefore, all europeans would be unable to purchase ad space using google. Unless, a business decides they prefer to circumvent their local laws, and pay google from an overseas account to access advertising services.

However, i suspect if google left europe, another competitor to google (ala, bing?) would immediately swoop in and take all the business. Google would suddenly find itself losing 1/3 or even half of their revenue!

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#320

Post by endorphone »

typon wrote: post #310
endorphone wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that not clearly breaching d? They're a part of the same suite of apps that provide the "Android experience" (Google experience, whatever -- the thing that most consumers think of when they consider Android). They manifestly have a profound connection with each other. And let's be clear here lest there be any confusion -- zero customers want a vendor to do anything different, and the only reason some vendors w…

Are there car dealers trying to offer a la carte car + entertainment system packages but are being shut down by BMW?

Of course there aren't because BMW absolutely squashed the possibility of that at the outset. But Google, apparently, deserves a $5B fine because they made a mistake of powering AOSP phones, the Amazon products, countless variations in China, set top boxes, etc.

It is incredible seeing Google being seriously attacked on here for have an open source path as well. I feel like this is some sort of alternative universe.

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