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Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

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Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#311

Post by donatj »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #264
donatj wrote: post #203

With how insanely in depth some of the restrictions are, I'll honestly be surprised if this isn't the route a lot of companies end up taking to GDPR compliance.

You mean completely flouting the regulations and muddying the waters by putting up ToS compliance popups that don't have anything to do with GDPR, in order to fool their users?

I simply mean having a contract indemnifying the company against GDPR, e.g. the user giving consent, to simply use the site.

Same as the cookie situation Europe has, but more so.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#312

Post by [deleted] »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #244
frockington wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that Facebook isn't really "technology" and that losing it would probably be a net positive. I am worried that Europe will set a precedent that will discourage internet technologies from doing business in Europe disconnecting them from the world.

Why are you worried about that? It would only impact tech that depends on privacy violation and tracking. Good riddance, I say.

[deleted]

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#313

Post by s73v3r_ »

ovao wrote: post #303
s73v3r_ wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I think the issue is that it really hasn't been a "take it or leave it" environment in the past years." What? Yes it has. "I am, however, leery about laws that essentially bind a business's hands in terms of how they can and cannot monetize on users, even when as there's A) clarity and B) honest, plain and upfront disclosure about how they do that." I'm not, mainly because business has been shown that they absolutel…

Can you give me an example of someone who isn’t in a position to — in simple terms — take their business elsewhere when it comes to dealing with some sort of online company with whom they’re voluntarily sharing data?

Lack of alternatives, for one. Second would be someone for whom the rest of their social network is on Facebook, and they use Facebook as a primary communications source. I know nobody would be willing to sign up for another network or use another messenger just because I don't want to use FB messenger. I cannot get behind the idea that ostracizing yourself from there rest of your friends and family is an acceptable thing.

Turn it around; why should Facebook be allowed to have "take it or leave it" terms? Why should we as a society allow that? And don't just say, "It's their business;" I don't find that to be a compelling reason. Why should users not have the control over their data that the GDPR brings?

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#314

Post by [deleted] »

purple-again wrote: post #87
ClassAndBurn wrote: post #42

GDPR doesn't cover enough of the population using Facebook to warrant such a change to their business model where you can use the service without them using your data. They believe they are entrenched enough to just require this (and likely are for many EU residents).

I'm really curious to find out if the GDPR privacy stance (I'm American, not well traveled, and with no non american social circle) is like the 'no JavaScript' community. Vastly over represented in the tech community and not really representative of the population as a whole. In other words, are 99% of European citizens going to just click through what ever annoying prompts they have to in order to get to their faceb…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#315

Post by siruncledrew »

newscracker wrote: post #218

Things like this make me very, very angry! So many missteps over the years. So many things bungled. So many dark patterns to fool users. Yet, where is the mass exodus of employees from Facebook? If you're still working in any company that Facebook owns in the technology or privacy or legal front, don't you realize what harm you're contributing to? And you're still ok with that? Don't you have a choice? I'm appalled t…

The devs are basically soldiers following the chain of command. The devs aren't going to do much unless they are threatened themselves because they get to enjoy rich, comfy lives as a result of their association to FB. It's easy to put blinders on to the rest of the harm they are contributing to when they don't really suffer from the impact of their work (or convince themselves they are doing the right thing).

As a modern analogy, imagine Erdogan's military and bodyguards. With all the global news on the matter, it's evident they are causing a lot of oppression to many people and basically contributing to a dictatorship, yet they still do as they are told from the top because their own benefit depends on it. Hell, he even got them to suppress a coup threatening his own power.

In order for FB to really change, it needs to change from the top. Otherwise, it's a massive effort to convince everyone at the bottom to push back against the top and threaten their own job security. The reality is Zuck, Andreessen, and the other board members at the top don't care to change, because changing for the benefit of their users also means less riches for themselves.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#316

Post by tonyjstark »

Shish2k wrote: post #113
tonyjstark wrote: post #53

Is it possible to delete my facebook account without consenting to usage of my data? So can I access the delete page without consent?

If you scroll down the twitter thread, you can see clicking "other options" instead of "accept" gives you a screen saying "if you don't want to accept the new TOS, click here to download a copy of your data and delete your account"

Thanks, I was at work and didn't want to read the whole thing. I searched for "delete" but nothing showed up in my browser...

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#317

Post by [deleted] »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #287
zerostar07 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is facebook's business? Targeted advertising. They don't sell you a friends management system for $0, they sell targeted ads to people who expect to receive targeted ads, and tracking is necessary for that. The same can be said about google's search service. The search still works, but adsense and adwords won't work without your private info. And google can claim it doesn't sell search, they sell ads.

It's not strictly about which services you are selling , it is about which services you are providing , and Facebook absolutely provide a social network website/app. Google absolutely provides search and email.

[deleted]

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#318

Post by KozmoNau7 »

donatj wrote: post #311
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean completely flouting the regulations and muddying the waters by putting up ToS compliance popups that don't have anything to do with GDPR, in order to fool their users?

I simply mean having a contract indemnifying the company against GDPR, e.g. the user giving consent, to simply use the site. Same as the cookie situation Europe has, but more so.

That is very explicitly not allowed by the GDPR. You cannot make access to your service contingent on opting in. The consent has to be given freely, otherwise FB will be in violation of the regulation.

Consent must also be given explicitly, you cannot have a pre-checked "yes" checkbox or an "accept and continue" button.

Consent can also be given in a legally binding contract. A website ToS is very much not able to override the GDPR.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#320

Post by KozmoNau7 »

gamblor956 wrote: post #276
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GDPR does not allow you to make access contingent on PII data collection, unless your service cannot possibly work without it.

I'm not sure why you keep spreading this FUD. The GDPR applies to all personal data, not just tracking data, and Facebook is useless without your personal data. IOW, FB can make access contingent upon agreeing to data collection.

It is not FUD. I work at a major telco/ISP, specifically on ensuring GDPR compliance for a number of applications.

Personal information that is deliberately and freely made public by the owner of that data (ie. you, the user) is free to use, both for the service on which you make it public, and for anyone who happens to read it on your publicly visible profile/wall.

The reasoning is that you made a deliberate choice to make this information public, meaning you have given consent to public viewing of said data.

What this Facebook issue is about, is the collection of personal data that you have not made publicly accessible, because it is private to you. FB is using this data to tailor ads and to modify your feed, giving you politics you agree with, suggesting pages for you to join, and so on. FB is also profiling you and inferring your private information, and using that to track you across the web (on every single web page with an FB "like" button, for instance). They have a disturbingly detailed profile on all of their users, including highly sensitive data such as political standing, sexual preferences, medical history, even possible infidelity.

FB is perfectly usable without giving them access to any other personal information than a fake date of birth and a throwaway email account. It is perfectly usable with "targeted ads" turned off. It is perfectly usable without the "optimized news feed", it can just default back to a chronological feed instead.

The violation of their users' privacy is not essential to the service FB provides to their users.

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