Facebook sucks more than my socks
Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law
311–320 of 409 posts
Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law
#312Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not contradicting, worth pointing out for the Americans in the audience: even if you have an exclusively US-based company, working with any EU users means you are in scope for GDPR. The consequences for violating GDPR are quite severe -- up to 20 million euro, or 4% of global turnover, whichever is greater . Again, this applies to US companies even if it's a single record of EU personal data. Furthermore, individuals…
> Again, this applies to US companies even if it's a single record of EU personal data. This is part of why I think GDPR is a disaster for startups. It's a massive regulatory burden which big companies will be able to comply with but small startups don't have the legal horsepower to handle. Typical EU regulatory overreach.
I work for a startup in the EU and will be affected by GDPR. It's a nuisance but not a disaster. In fact, any small company that really can't employ good enough processes to comply is probably doing something very, very wrong.
Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law
#313Earlier quoted context omitted.
You get the courts that the person you're servicing uses. Like when you sell to someone in a particular country and have to abide by their sales and tax laws.
That’s not true on both accounts EU courts have no jurisdiction over non-EU entities and there is no process on how to arbitrate a lawful retention requirement which trumps GDPR between EU and none EU entities. As for the taxation part of your comment that is again an incorrect statement in fact it’s categoriclaly false. If I as say a Brazillian company want to sell goods to an EU resident I do not perform any tax co…
What, like US courts have no jurisdiction in the EU? I can pirate US movies, and as a EU bank, not report on US citizens in the EU to the US?
Those weird things aside, this isn't about collecting VAT. It's about remaining within the confines of the law of the country you're conducting your affairs in.
It's like if I, as a Russian, wanted to sell a car to someone in the US, I'd have to ensure that my car meets whatever requirements/standards the US sets out for vehicles. If my vehicle doesn't meet those standards, which court do you think I'd have to appeal in, as a Russian selling a car to an American?
Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law
#314Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, just that's where they are. The law says a US citizen who happens to be in Berlin (maybe on vacation) is subject to German law. Fine says GDPR, I'm EU law, so I apply to that US citizen too.
That's how most of the law works. If I commit a felony while on vacation, I'm subject to the penal code of the country I'm visiting, not the one where I have residence.
There are more scenarios.
I am US citizen I have residency in US and I make new account (make contract) with company providing service that is based in US with rules as in US. I visit Berlin for a week and I log in into account to use the service. Is that falling under GDPR?
I am US citizen I have residency in US and I go to Berlin where I make new account (make contract) with company providing service. Now I go back to US and login to use service. Is this one also falling under GDPR?
Which law is applicable to contracts between two parties going into contract? Usually in formal contracts you have place and date. I assume you agree on laws of place where contract is made. So if you are at the moment in Germany that is the place of making contract.
I think also criminal law and civil law are quite different in many ways so I would not draw conclusions based on how commiting felony is handled.
Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law
#315Earlier quoted context omitted.
People living in the EU absolutely want control of the gathering of their PII. The only complaints I've seen about it are concerning people responsible for administrating data in companies. GDPR represents an ideology of not giving corporations free reign to make profits at any human/social cost, but to reign them in and give people chance to consent rather than be data-raped. Could you expand on how you think it's (…
> What's bad about informed consent wrt PII? The cookie pop-up is an example of EU overeach. Doesn’t help privacy, doesn’t UI, and now everyone is just dismissing them.
One of the reasons GDPR was enacted is because the cookie law wasn't taken seriously. Companies used technical means (removing any meaningful opt out) to render the law moot in practice; as the industry failed to self regulate, the EU took the nuclear option.
Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law
#316Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s not true on both accounts EU courts have no jurisdiction over non-EU entities and there is no process on how to arbitrate a lawful retention requirement which trumps GDPR between EU and none EU entities. As for the taxation part of your comment that is again an incorrect statement in fact it’s categoriclaly false. If I as say a Brazillian company want to sell goods to an EU resident I do not perform any tax co…
What, like US courts have no jurisdiction in the EU? I can pirate US movies, and as a EU bank, not report on US citizens in the EU to the US? Those weird things aside, this isn't about collecting VAT. It's about remaining within the confines of the law of the country you're conducting your affairs in. It's like if I, as a Russian, wanted to sell a car to someone in the US, I'd have to ensure that my car meets whateve…
Those copyright laws are enforced through local copyright holders and or existing trade agreements which again is something that understood and is established in international law including WTO regulations.
The GDPR has no mandate under existing international law.
The level of strawmaning is getting ridiculous when 2 countries sign a trade agreement you have 2 electorates which have a say in what is going to happen.
The GDPR extra-territorial application isn't just extra-territorial it's extra-judicial in which you have a law forced on you that you have had no saying in how it was passed and you have no saying it how it would be interpreted and or enforced.
This is tyrannical and I'm an EU citizen.
Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law
#317Earlier quoted context omitted.
If your store front is accessible to EU based citizens then you have an EU presence.
No if you aren’t a legal entity in the EU you have no presence in the EU. If you would push for this the only thing that would happen is that companies would stop accepting orders from the EU. If this is going to be the definition expect a lot of store fronts to be closed to EU residents following May 25th or more likely the first time this precedence will be set in court.
It seems a direct parallel of being tried for copyright infringement in USA when you have an offshore website - like O'Dwyer who had to bribe himself out of being extradited from UK to face charges of copyright infringement in USA. He'd never been there, didn't have servers there, and was acting legally in his jurisdiction of residence.
Similar things happened with USA's actions on Silk Road, KAT, with Kim Dotcom, and I'm sure many other legal situations I'm not aware of.
EU is seemingly extending logical contact to be equivalent to entry to a jurisdiction as USA appear to have established is desirable as a facet of inter-national application of law in the internet age.
I much prefer the extension of jurisdiction in protection of member states citizens rights than in the service of media conglomerates.
Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law
#318Earlier quoted context omitted.
The really, really, really awesome thing about GDPR is that you can't deny service because someone wants to opt out of sharing their data. You actually have to keep their account active and make it work somehow. If you can't, then you are libel for a really huge penalty. I can't add enough smileys to that, so you will just have to imagine them.
> The really, really, really awesome thing about GDPR is that you can't deny service because someone wants to opt out of sharing their data. That's actually pretty horrible. How about freedom of association and freedom to contract? These two are basic human rights. If one thinks their privacy rights are not respected they are free not to associate or contract and same thing for the entity on the other side of the con…
> If one thinks their privacy rights are not respected they are free not to associate or contract
We tried that. It didn't work.
> The basis of a free society is the freedom to contract
You cannot write any contract as you want. They are limited, and for very good reasons. One example is indentured servitude. It's basically a contract you voluntarily sign that binds you to work for a party for a duration of time. Does it sound reasonable at a first glance? It's considered slavery today and is almost globally banned.
Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law
#319Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not contradicting, worth pointing out for the Americans in the audience: even if you have an exclusively US-based company, working with any EU users means you are in scope for GDPR. The consequences for violating GDPR are quite severe -- up to 20 million euro, or 4% of global turnover, whichever is greater . Again, this applies to US companies even if it's a single record of EU personal data. Furthermore, individuals…
> Again, this applies to US companies even if it's a single record of EU personal data. This is part of why I think GDPR is a disaster for startups. It's a massive regulatory burden which big companies will be able to comply with but small startups don't have the legal horsepower to handle. Typical EU regulatory overreach.
It is nice that you think that but actually startups have the least amount of problems regarding GDPR. You can start coding with GDPR in mind (privacy by design) and you will hardly have a lot of problems. Big companies have huge codebases and databases and they will have to integrate privacy into them which is FAR more complicated than any startup can even imagine. On the other side, if you are doing startup where you want to use privacy breaching as a business model, then you shouldnt exist in a first place, so no damage done.
Re: Facebook to change user terms, limiting effect of EU privacy law
#320This article is really confusing. Basically the point is that under the current terms of service they tell you that if you are outside of the US then you are doing business with their Ireland office. Since the Ireland office is in the EU, it is subject to the GDPR. So that means that everybody outside of the US will be covered by the GDPR (because they are doing business with an EU company). They are changing their t…
Not contradicting, worth pointing out for the Americans in the audience: even if you have an exclusively US-based company, working with any EU users means you are in scope for GDPR. The consequences for violating GDPR are quite severe -- up to 20 million euro, or 4% of global turnover, whichever is greater . Again, this applies to US companies even if it's a single record of EU personal data. Furthermore, individuals…
My counter example to this is that nobody in the US does the super annoying cookie popup thing that's required in the EU already - why would they do GDPR which is orders of magnitude more complicated.