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Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

craigslist.org

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Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#311

Post by Noos »

jrs235 wrote: post #266
_pmf_ wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some workers of the business in the Netherlands argue that the end of prohibition worsened conditions.

I assume things got worse because cowardly assholes are now allowed to treat the prostitutes disrespectfully. Before, the assholes that were afraid of the law wouldn't risk going to a prostitute. Now that the law won't hurt them, they go and are demanding disrespectful assholes. Just a guess. Edit: law abiding != kind, respectful, or moral

It got worse because no one wants to be a prostitute, and there has always been a strong coercive element to women entering that profession. When you legalize, you increase demand while the supply is still capped, so coercion rises to compensate.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#312

Post by theandrewbailey »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #112
trhway wrote: post #45

97-2 in Senate. Probably only sex and drugs have such universal magical power over politicians of all colors.

If only NASA could say that they found on Mars a new substance that probably eliminates the desire to do drugs... We'd be having a golden age of space exploration now.

If NASA discovered oil on Mars, we'd be there years ago. (Something liberation something something...)

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#313

Post by TeMPOraL »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #304
emiliobumachar wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You bring forth a compelling theory, but I don't think it's true. Compare the market for contraband or counterfeited booze and cigarettes, which "mirrors" legal booze and cigarettes, with the market for cocaine and heroin, where "all the surrounding paraphernalia is direct evidence".

OK, go on, if someone is smoking an illegally imported cigarette it's nearly impossible to tell just by looking that there's been a crime. If they're doing a line you know within a small error margin without any investigation. Why, because the former is hidden by the legally allowed behaviour.

Sure, but the question is about the relative sizes of the markets and the amount of involuntary suffering involved.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#314

Post by TeMPOraL »

theandrewbailey wrote: post #312
TeMPOraL wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only NASA could say that they found on Mars a new substance that probably eliminates the desire to do drugs... We'd be having a golden age of space exploration now.

If NASA discovered oil on Mars, we'd be there years ago. (Something liberation something something...)

FWIW, it's raining natural gas on Titan.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#315

Post by rnnr »

jacques_chester wrote: post #256
adventured wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh they told you about it, they were favorable to it: [Feb 14 2018] "Don’t Let Criminals Hide Their Data Overseas" https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/14/opinion/data-overseas-leg... [Mar 5 2018] "A promising solution is the Cloud (Clarifying Lawful Overseas Use of Data) Act, introduced by a bipartisan coalition in the Senate last month." https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/a-global-game-of-wha...

Both of these are opinion page pieces. Newspapers publish a wide variety of these without endorsing the position.

they still pick the opinions they publish.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#316

Post by mirko22 »

jonnycomputer wrote: post #284
omarforgotpwd wrote: post #127

Rather than stopping undesirable activity, this will merely push it to platforms and protocol that are out of the US government's control.

It might, or it might not. And even if it did, then so what? I think the attitude you expressed is equivalent to: well since there is no way to actually stop the slave trade from using some platform, US companies might as well profit from it.

so we should shut off everything that has potential for slave trade? like phones? email? post mail? cars? what?

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#317

Post by noxToken »

kcanini wrote: post #283
Buge wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither I nor rpearl claimed it wasn't limiting. The intent was to protect people who are being harmed against their will (held in sex slavery against their will). Of course the actual effect of the law is different than the intent. The actual effect is limiting.

Do you think the actual intent is closer the stated intent, or to the actual results? We're talking about seasoned politicians, not naive dreamers.

The actual intent probably is closer to the stated intent. The actual results just don't matter to them.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#318

Post by Noos »

otherme1 wrote: post #209
halflings wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is key. I strongly believe that legalization is the only answer to the problem. Why do we have to "believe"? There are many examples to learn from, to see what works and what doesn't. For example, this study [0]. "This paper suggests it’s the latter. Using trafficking data from 150 countries, the authors find that "countries where prostitution is legal experience a larger reported incidence of human traffickin…

I'm sure that places with legalized drugs also experience increases in drug trafficking inflows. And the overall alcohol consumption in the USA rose after the prohibition. >> Does this mean legalizing prostitution is a bad idea? Well, not necessarily. The authors note that legalization could have other positive effects, such making it easier for prostitutes to seek legal or medical help and decreasing rates of abuse…

Yes it's a bad idea.

Imagine we had legalized drugs, but barely anyone wanted to make them, because making them was nasty and degrading in a way that few people could even tolerate. No matter what you did, you simply couldn't find enough people willing to make them. Paying them more wont help, because beyond a certain point the nastiness of making them can't be washed away with money.

So the next step is coercing people to do so.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#319

Post by Noos »

smadge wrote: post #207

Tonight tens of thousands sex workers are devestated that their safer tool for finding clients is shutting down. Exploitative sex trafficking will continue unabated, but independent working people will be forced into more dangerous situations.

LOL at craigslist being "safe." That site was always sketchy as hell.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#320

Post by telesilla »

hellofunk wrote: post #263
syshum wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>I really wish that I could come forward with a solution to the online sex trafficking problem. Step 1. End Prohibition of Sex Work Step 2. Stop Diverting Police Resources to enforcing laws on what consenting Adults do on their own time (both Prostitution and Drugs) Step 3. Stop Criminalizing Speech driving to further and further under ground were it is no longer tracable at all The "scorched earth" groups are in no…

> Step 1. End Prohibition of Sex Work All you have to do is study the laws of prostitution elsewhere in the world to understand that they have little to no influence on sex trafficking. Prostitution is legal, explicit, and even taxed in the Netherlands, but sex trafficking remains such a major problem that some large cities, like Utrecht, have outlawed prostitution locally to combat the issue.

It may not end sex trafficking but legalising prostitution lowers harm levels on workers, but allowing them to seek medical care and police protection without risk of incarceration. There is no down-side to legalisation as many would say for drugs, as it allows problems to have legal solutions.
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