Americans are spending less on clothing • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#311

Post by smelendez » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 9:50 PM UTC

zeveb wrote: post #160

randcraw wrote: post #88

IMHO there are three clear causes for this trend: 1) US business fashion is increasingly casual. Ties, skirts, suits, coordinated outfits, scarves, leather soled shoes -- all are passe, even in button down East Coast Fortune 100 companies (other than for aspiring managers or those in banking/finance). 2) Color is passe. Shades of black and grey dominate wardrobes, especially in large cities. Thus fewer accessories ar…

> Ties, skirts, suits, coordinated outfits, scarves, leather soled shoes -- all are passe, even in button down East Coast Fortune 100 companies (other than for aspiring managers or those in banking/finance). I dunno about that. When I see someone who's wearing decent clothes, I still think, 'wow, that's someone who wants to look good .' But I think that I'm a bit weird — I actually enjoy dressing differently for diff…

> I dunno about that. When I see someone who's wearing decent clothes, I still think, 'wow, that's someone who wants to look good.'

Sure! But for a lot of people (especially men), roughly the same "decent clothes" are now decent for work, date night, going to the supermarket, going to your friend's rock show, going to the airport, family holidays, etc. In even the recent past, you could dress well or poorly, but you'd still have to dress more differently for different places.

I had jury duty earlier this week and was afraid I'd look like a jerk not wearing a tie. It turned out I was one of the few men wearing a collared shirt and slacks.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#312

Post by akgerber » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 9:51 PM UTC

arkh wrote: post #27

EliRivers wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

clothes last for ages now They can do (as indeed they always could) if you pay for it, although in my experience the majority of clothes bought don't last ages; modern materials (from the sixties onwards, I would say - polyester and related), manufacturing techniques and the easy attitude of consumers in buying clothing that doesn't last have all contributed. Certainly anything you buy in a high-street chain, be it t…

They never lasted ages. People just repaired them because it was economically a better choice. And most of them did not mind using clothes which were not perfect.

My winter coat is US Navy peacoat, over 50 years old. It weighs about 5 pounds and is very warm and comfortable. It's definitely made better, and will last longer, than any department store peacoat, although you can still buy a new Navy-spec peacoat from Sterlingwear or Schott that'll probably last you a good long time.

You can buy similar coats, although I still prefer the feel of the kersey wool on my old peacoat to the newer melton wool.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#313

Post by drdoom » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 9:55 PM UTC

You know this is a special pet peeve of mine. I have stopped myself several times from complaining about this very

For a period of a few years, a few years ago, I started shopping very frequently for pants, shirts, etc. I once caught myself wondering why that was the case. The answer surprised me: I was not happy with the stuff I was buying. They would not fit comfortably after the initial wear.

Then I noticed what was really the problem:

1) Pants are getting shorter, mostly in the inseams - the distance from the belt loops to bottom of the zippers. (In other words, pants now "sit below the hip", there is no more those that "sit at the hip").

2) Shirts are getting shorter too. They don't go as far down under your belt as they used too.

So, just these two combinations leave a good part of my lower belly exposed quickly and easily, something I do "not" like.

3) It is quite hard to find pants with basic options, like pleats and cuffs. Everything is flat fronted, it seems.

So, it is easy to see why no one is shopping any more unless they really have to.

Just my 2 cents :-)

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#314

Post by viraptor » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 10:00 PM UTC

ryanianian wrote: post #282

tomc1985 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ITT: Silly foreigners that need to spend more time traveling. None of this should be revelatory. People are different, and 'dress well' is subjective. Personally I want to punch most of these supposedly 'well dressed' people. They all look the same to me.

It's all subjective for sure. What I find interesting is that some cultures show a preference for clothes that are (imho) somewhat objectively less comfortable. Pants in humid climates. Suits at all. The history behind why things became the norm is interesting. This article shows how America is changing. This isn't a bad or good thing - it's just an interesting thing.

Some counters to the comfortable / looking good tradeoff - it's not that simple:

- higher quality, tailored suits are much more comfortable than simple ones, (or even jeans really) and look slightly better

- good kilts look great and are more comfortable to wear than any trousers

- humid climates are usually sunny - it's sometimes easier to wear a really light long sleeve / trousers to keep the sun away from skin

- very humid climates, like Singapore are so warm people just try to stay inside and almost every place has AC set to ~19°C, so either you're well dressed, or you're cold

- look at some pictures of people in Melbourne - casual style there can look way better than suits

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#315

Post by sudosteph » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 10:06 PM UTC

ryanianian wrote: post #286

cortesoft wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, as you said, shorts are customary in the US but not in Mexico.... how does that translate into less self-pride in the US? That is just a different custom of dress. Are you arguing that 'self-pride' is measured by how uncomfortable you make yourself? I don't follow the logic.

I'm probably bringing my own US biases in, but I think objectively that more comfortable => less pride in appearance . Not less pride overall just pride in appearance. (You're not a bad person because you only wear cargo shorts! You just don't value your appearance as much as somebody who always wears suits.) I'd love to learn of (and maybe live in) a culture that thinks elastic-waist sweatpants show a sense of pride…

I just don't see that making sense. Maybe it's a generational thing, but I've never seen a person in a suit and thought they must have extra "pride" in their appearance. I mean, anyone can look decent in a (tailored) suit. It's easy. it's a standard corporate outfit because you don't have to think too hard about it. If anything I assume suit wearers don't have enough confidence to pull of a more individualistic look competently.

Meanwhile I see some of the pics from r/streetwear, and those folks have pride! Sweatpants and all, I can appreciate that there is an actual aesthetic there and that their outfits fit their body types and daily needs (especially for techwear).

Nothing makes comfort or lack of traditional formality unstylish in itself, other than biases and cultural gatekeeping at least. Dirty clothes are lazy of course, but so long as your clothes actually fit you and are clean + coordinated, its possible to have pride in your style and be comfy. Even if suit afficianados sneer, if you like it and others like it, you can be proud.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#316

Post by sudosteph » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 10:20 PM UTC

smelendez wrote: post #311

zeveb wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ties, skirts, suits, coordinated outfits, scarves, leather soled shoes -- all are passe, even in button down East Coast Fortune 100 companies (other than for aspiring managers or those in banking/finance). I dunno about that. When I see someone who's wearing decent clothes, I still think, 'wow, that's someone who wants to look good .' But I think that I'm a bit weird — I actually enjoy dressing differently for diff…

> I dunno about that. When I see someone who's wearing decent clothes, I still think, 'wow, that's someone who wants to look good.' Sure! But for a lot of people (especially men), roughly the same "decent clothes" are now decent for work, date night, going to the supermarket, going to your friend's rock show, going to the airport, family holidays, etc. In even the recent past, you could dress well or poorly, but you'…

That's interesting! I got called for Jury duty once and actually dressed down more than usual. Figured that since I'd be sitting around all day and was legally obligated to be there (and not getting paid for it) I didn't really owe them any effort. Luckily the case got thrown out quickly. I never once felt underdressed or out of place though. It's a public duty, not a privilege, and you're not the one on trial.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#317

Post by linuxps2 » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 10:24 PM UTC

xeromal wrote: post #303

ryanianian wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm probably bringing my own US biases in, but I think objectively that more comfortable => less pride in appearance . Not less pride overall just pride in appearance. (You're not a bad person because you only wear cargo shorts! You just don't value your appearance as much as somebody who always wears suits.) I'd love to learn of (and maybe live in) a culture that thinks elastic-waist sweatpants show a sense of pride…

People are almost avoiding your point on purpose. Are they really that obtuse? Haha.

I think his point is making a big assumption that replies are bucking - dressing more traditionally formal != pride in appearance. In fact, as the sibling comment to yours points out - that's not the case at all. Being individualistic, whether that's in a stylish suit or an outfit from /r/streetwear, shows pride in one's appearance. I see a man in a printed tshirt and a man in a boring, unexciting button down equally as far as "pride in appearance" goes

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#318

Post by raiyu » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 10:31 PM UTC

There are always macro trends going on in fashion and clothing tastes change every few years, however what I found interesting is that they compared technology spending vs clothing spending, but this isn't the right comparison.

We are spending more on technology because it is essential for modern day life. First with the computer, then laptop, then ipod, and now the smart phone.

From a limited budget increasing spending in one area will decrease it in another, but the other big question is how have spending habits changed over the past 30 years.

Technology went up, clothing went down, but I'm certain other areas of spending also increased.

Rent as a % of income most likely went up.

Certainly debt as a % of income went up when you consider what's going on with school tuition, and that is a fairly recent trend of dramatically increasing rates over the past decade. Which would time well with many people who have graduated, with tremendous debt, now in the workforce earning money, but having greater expenses.

So when you look at all of those factors combined I think essentially what you end up with is less disposable income.

Then you consider how we decide to dispose of our income and you realize that the networked social world that is instantly available to you via a smartphone allows us to lifestyle shop from other people. Where before we did window shopping and focused more on our small community without access to global information, we are now life style shopping on instagram and so this has led to an increase in disposable income being spent for those other experiences.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#319

Post by draw_down » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 10:50 PM UTC

jimmies wrote: post #54

>Apparel is being displaced by travel, eating out and activities—what’s routinely lumped together as “experiences”—which have grown to 18 percent of purchases. [..] That now tops all clothing and footwear expenditures. I have a completely blunt theory on that. People learn that pictures of them smiling in their bathing suit in the Maldives or with that exotic plate of food attract more 'likes' than the pictures of th…

That's not a theory, you just don't like people who use Instagram or whatever a bunch. Which is fine if that's how you feel, but let's not pass it of as anything deeper than that.

Re: Americans are spending less on clothing

#320

Post by drewmol » Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 10:57 PM UTC

randcraw wrote: post #88

IMHO there are three clear causes for this trend: 1) US business fashion is increasingly casual. Ties, skirts, suits, coordinated outfits, scarves, leather soled shoes -- all are passe, even in button down East Coast Fortune 100 companies (other than for aspiring managers or those in banking/finance). 2) Color is passe. Shades of black and grey dominate wardrobes, especially in large cities. Thus fewer accessories ar…

In addition, with the ubiquity of online persona I wonder if:

(4) Physical appearence/face to face meeting is not usually where people form their first impression anymore, and focus/effort has shifted from wardrobe to online appearance