How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? • Hacker News Board

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#311

Post by tetromino_ » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 11:36 PM UTC

hkmurakami wrote: post #306

tetromino_ wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a $300/day activity that necessitates travel A $50/day activity at a local hill + a $150 initial investment (one that will last you multiple winters) in some decade-old used equipment at a local swap event. Skiing is not cheap. But it's extremely expensive only if you have extremely expensive demands - such was wanting to ski while living in an area without hills or snow.

I mean sure, for some of us beach vacations are free bc we live in LA or Florida, but for most of the country it'll cost in the thousands. Ditto skiing with lift passes, travel, and lodging. Having a local hill is the exception rather than the rule tbh.

The US has skiable mountain ranges near a majority of the main coastal population centers. Hills around the Great Lakes might not be high, but make up for it with the volume of snow. A back of an envelope estimate shows half of the US population having a ski hill within driving distance.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#312

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 11:44 PM UTC

saget wrote: post #239

jstarfish wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can, but it doesn't. If anything it drives divisiveness on a scale we've never seen before. Before the internet it used to take 10-20 years to foment discord against a particular group. Now we have a new boogeyman every 18 months and it's always other plebes or pariahs-- never the ruling elite.

Martin Shkreli, Harvey Weinstein, Wall Street protests, and probably others that I forget were aided by the Internet. Hopefully it will become a bigger trend in the future.

[deleted]

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#313

Post by malvosenior » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 11:50 PM UTC

hammock wrote: post #309

malvosenior wrote: post #28

As someone who's navigated their way from poor->middle class->upper middle class I can give a bit of perspective that I rarely see mentioned in these articles... One of the biggest barriers to moving up in class is the people in your starter class. Family, friends, neighbors... almost all of them will start to get very aggressive with you if you seriously try to better yourself. I remember being accused of using too…

>Now I find myself at the glass ceiling and this time there's very real pressure from above to stay where I'm at. Rich people may let you in the door occasionally but it will be on their terms. It's up to you as a person to decide if you're willing to contort yourself to their demands. Can you expand on this? Interested in what examples you can provide.

Some of it is interests. As mentioned in another thread here, a lot of upper class people have no interest in skills that have vocational value. They consider programming and tech to be blue collar-ish. The amount of time you have to spend dedicated to tech to stay good at it isn't compatible with their lifestyles.

I also find that one of the doors that might be available to someone from a lower class is hedonism. There's a lot of partying going on and if you're willing, that's an avenue to access. I'm not willing.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#314

Post by ryandrake » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 12:05 AM UTC

charlesdm wrote: post #295

ryandrake wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll never forget how odd and uncomfortable it felt the first time I went out to lunch with co-workers (at my first “real” job) and this “split the check” thing happened. I always thought it just seemed so much fairer for everyone to figure out what they ate and pay for that. Kind of a culture shock.

Is it? Not co-workers, but I always find it (extremely) annoying that after having a great meal with friends that some of them insist on counting item per item how much they owe at the end of the evening. Yes, I might have had an extra glass of wine. Or you might have had an extra side dish or a G&T. Let's either just split the bill, or I'll pay today and you'll get the next.

Now it seems silly, but back then it was a sudden transition between honestly worrying about the implications of a $15 lunch vs a $5 lunch, to making some money and not having to sweat it.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

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Post by gf263 » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 12:27 AM UTC

macNchz wrote: post #98

gf263 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>never order a burger at a restaurant Whelp there goes my dreams of hanging with rich people

Au contraire, just stop by JG Melon on Manhattan's Upper East Side, longtime favorite burger joint of wealthy prep school types (and Mike Bloomberg).

Great, I’m moving to Manhattan in a month!

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#316

Post by kelukelugames » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 12:52 AM UTC

aje403 wrote: post #308

charlesdm wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those people are most likely also up to their eyes in debt, just trying to show off and keeping up with the "true" upper class. Most people in their 20s working jobs won't have substantial wealth, unless they were born into money.

Some of what you’re saying does occur but that’s just a part of it. Come to nyc, there’s no shortage of IB associates, lawyer associates, and MC principals making 300k+ in their late 20s with a straight path upward Edit: Not talking about the guy who rents a $10k apartment he can't afford to trick people into thinking he's rich. Talking more about people buying into social strata they can reasonably or paying fealty…

300k is a mind blowing amount of money to most people, but it's also considered nothing to a lot of people. Though I'm impressed someone can make principal consultant in their 20s.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#317

Post by aje403 » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 1:02 AM UTC

kelukelugames wrote: post #316

aje403 wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of what you’re saying does occur but that’s just a part of it. Come to nyc, there’s no shortage of IB associates, lawyer associates, and MC principals making 300k+ in their late 20s with a straight path upward Edit: Not talking about the guy who rents a $10k apartment he can't afford to trick people into thinking he's rich. Talking more about people buying into social strata they can reasonably or paying fealty…

300k is a mind blowing amount of money to most people, but it's also considered nothing to a lot of people. Though I'm impressed someone can make principal consultant in their 20s.

That's true - I'm just painting a picture. Same thing at most rungs of the ladder and I'm sure it happens in a similar way in many other places around the world - just the way it works. It's a different world than what most of the people on this site might see day to day - making big money in software requires a different set of soft skills to find success as I think most people on here would agree.

The guy I had in mind was, I think, 29, german and I think working at BCG? Very polished. Had his fresh-to-the-city model girlfriend and threw great parties.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#318

Post by sedachv » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 1:30 AM UTC

Consultant32452 wrote: post #109

untog wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The internet will almost certainly spawn a social movement to destroy the class system in the US. I'm unconvinced. The class system is, at its core, money. And short of eBay allowing people to sell second hand items peer to peer, I really don't think the internet has enabled economic mobility all that much. A select few in Silicon Valley have gotten very rich, certainly, but an effect on the population at large? Ma…

I think you're undervaluing the impact of the internet on small business. Sure, a few guys at the tippy top of Uber-eats are the only ones getting fabulously wealthy, but I've discovered several wonderful mom and pop restaurants through that service. Sure, only a hand full of people at Google are getting fabulously wealthy, but most of the video content I consume these days are regular-ish people on Youtube who now m…

The Internet does enable easier local business discovery. Where are all the new small businesses though? The latest Census data is from 2015 and shows the number of new small businesses created is at a level not seen since the mid-1970s:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/08/news/economy/us-startups-nea...

Whatever combination of factors is at work suppressing small business creation since the 2008 recession is not being overcome by the advantages you listed.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#319

Post by kd0amg » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 2:34 AM UTC

philipkglass wrote: post #166

saget wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How you dress is very important. Knowing enough about current events and having your own, thoughtful opinion about them. Knowing a number of books and using them in conversation. Rules on when to be blunt are different. Never order a burger at a restaurant. I could go on but it's a hard thing to summarize. (source: was middle/lower class, now have many 1% friends)

The rules about books, food, and current events could just as well come from "how to fit in with graduate students in the humanities (and sometimes other disciplines)." Which might explain why I and my friends never "coded" as poor when I was in graduate school, even though I was technically living below the federal poverty line for a few years.

It's sort of a weird position and a good example for illustrating the distinction between social and economic standing. Grad school often feels like an extended exercise in class-passing.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#320

Post by yakitori » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 2:41 AM UTC

staunch wrote: post #3

> In the UK, class consciousness is woven into the national identity. In America, however, people often like to pretend that a class system doesn’t really exist. But, of course, it does. This is the most insidious part. The media in the US has historically been 100% controlled by rich people, and all major media still is. The evil rich people figured out that if you start a gender and race war among the 99%, you can…

> The media in the US has historically been 100% controlled by rich people, and all major media still is.

Things have gotten worse as capital consolidated all the industries. Now we have an illusion of choice. When you go to the supermarket, there seems to be tons of variety of products by many companies. After all, there are so many brands. But all these brands are owned by a handful of companies. The same thing with banking. The last financial crisis was used by the FED ( a banking cartel ) to get large multinational banks to buy up smaller regional banks. Regional newspapers are being bought up by major media companies like news corp.

> The evil rich people figured out that if you start a gender and race war among the 99%, you can distract them from the fact that they're all being economically exploited and subjected to wage slavery.

It's not just identity politics. It's also the bread and circuses. Nothing more poignant than the upcoming superbowl where the mindless stuff their faces while watching advertisements for 4 hours.

> The internet will almost certainly spawn a social movement to destroy the class system in the US.

That's naive. The internet will almost certainly be used to reinforce it. More distractions, more propaganda and more divisions. Look how quickly the wealthy has come down on the internet and social media already. Look at the amount of censorship. Look what happened to youtube trending page and google news. Youtube trending is now all SNL, major news channels and late night shows. Google news is now all washingtonpost, nytimes, etc.

I hope you are right, but experience tells me money wins and the masses are not intelligent enough or united enough to challenge the wealthy. Our political system doesn't allow for it, nor does our education system or the media or anything else.