James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google • Hacker News Board

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#311

Post by dmode » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:26 PM UTC

ogre_magi wrote: post #200

dmode wrote: post #176

Why would a "white male conservative" sue a corporation when the conservative platform believes that in a free market corporations should be allowed to discriminate as they please ? I have heard Ron Paul (ok, a libertarian) state numerous times how he doesn't support civil rights, because the public will stop visiting those businesses who engage in discriminatory behavior. Shouldn't James Damore just let the free mar…

Damore wouldn't describe himself as conservative I think.

Is that true ? I thought he describes himself as a conservative in the lawsuit. Anyway, my comment was a bit "tongue-in-cheek"

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#312

Post by oneeyedpigeon » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:26 PM UTC

ihsw2 wrote: post #294

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #210

Whatever you think of the memo, you have to be a little concerned about the precedent this would set if companies were not allowed to discriminate based on 'political' views. Should I be forced to hire a neo-nazi or a terrorist sympathiser so long as they're up to the job?

Companies can simply have a straight-edged policy of no politics -- from religion to economics, it's all off-topic and out-of-bounds.

If you ran a traditional company, and were interviewing a candidate who wanted to bring about the destruction of capitalism, would you hire them if there were equally-good alternatives?

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#313

Post by beebmam » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:27 PM UTC

moduspol wrote: post #288

beebmam wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not forget that the metrics for "ability", especially in a field like software engineering, are highly unscientific. People barely have any idea about how to hire a software engineer, much less judge someone's true "ability". Preferences are also very complicated. People may prefer things very differently given the environment. That quote, along with many others, demonstrates the absolute lack of genuineness on…

Why is it that one side gets to make claims accepted blindly as fact unquestionably (unequal representation of women is solely because of sexism) and the other side must be objective / scientific?

No. Neither side must make claims about what is not understood (which is nearly everything). Damore is the one making the claim, and one with very serious consequences.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#314

Post by Jach » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:28 PM UTC

jetcata wrote: post #182

Legitimate question here, how is it ok for all the screenshots of internal tools which the authors must have assumed would remain internal to Google to be put into this publicly visible suit? Their names are visible and not redacted? Is this just a reminder to be careful what you post at work?

Generally good work advice: assume every internal email or slack IM you send might one day be read out loud in court.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#315

Post by tooltalk » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:28 PM UTC

comicjk wrote: post #192

thenayr wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, you know, he could realize what a monumental fuck up he made and try and make a difference for the better. The dude literally let himself be paraded around by the alt-right and neo-nazi groups as a hero. -----------EDIT below--------------- Zero sympathy for this dirtbag. He's un-hireable because he deserves to be. Future advice for Damore wannabees When alt-right Twitter agrees with your world-views, you're doin…

He also lied about having a PhD (he was in a program, but did not finish). This makes it difficult for me to take him seriously as someone motivated by an insistent search for truth.

He never lied about having a PhD. He was in middle of his PhD program when he decided to drop out and join Google -- nowhere in his his LinkedIn page, did he falsely indicate that he finished his PhD.

Da'More must have completed at least course work and research required for master's, however, and Harvard gave him master's instead.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#316

Post by viridian » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:28 PM UTC

perseusprime11 wrote: post #292

vowelless wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true. If the memo wasn't enough, him immediately going to right wing YouTubers like Stefan Molyneux, Jordan Peterson, Mike cernovich, Joe Rogan, Dave Rubin, Steven Crowder, etc. is suspicious. [1] Generally I wouldn't have minded if he went to right wing outlets, as long as he had also gone to left wing outlets. I was willing to listen to his reasoning. But it became clear after the memo came out that he didn…

Never knew joe organ was right wing. I've been listening to his podcasts which seem pretty good.

I don't think he is, a gave a couple reasons why here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16099356

But this has been a big topic of debate on his podcast subreddit as well. I think it mainly comes from the guests he has on, but Joe has written on Twitter about how getting left leaning guests on to talk politics is just a lot harder. Russell Brand is great and all, but no one else really seems interested for whatever reason.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#317

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:28 PM UTC

hkmurakami wrote: post #221

MBCook wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But can he sustain that? Or is he something of a ‘flavor of the month’ that people will stop carrying about in a year or two? Is this just an attempt to extend his relevance a bit longer?

If his settlement is 7 figures, he can retire off of that.

If the class action settlement is 7 figures, the lawyers might able to retire on it (but probably wouldn't, even if they could), but even the lead plaintiff is unlikely to see enough personally to retire on.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#318

Post by H99189 » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:28 PM UTC

perseusprime11 wrote: post #292

vowelless wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true. If the memo wasn't enough, him immediately going to right wing YouTubers like Stefan Molyneux, Jordan Peterson, Mike cernovich, Joe Rogan, Dave Rubin, Steven Crowder, etc. is suspicious. [1] Generally I wouldn't have minded if he went to right wing outlets, as long as he had also gone to left wing outlets. I was willing to listen to his reasoning. But it became clear after the memo came out that he didn…

Never knew joe organ was right wing. I've been listening to his podcasts which seem pretty good.

He's not, but if you're a gallon of gasoline, the remotest spark can seem like a huge threat to your very existence, which is what I took the overreaction to the memo to be. He spoke his mind, with citations, and he was torched for it, and the left wing outlets except for Joe Rogan and Dave Rubin had no interest in letting his real story come out, because the overreaction, the firing and the ongoing assault on his character is shameful if you ask me.

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#319

Post by beebmam » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:28 PM UTC

moduspol wrote: post #288

beebmam wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not forget that the metrics for "ability", especially in a field like software engineering, are highly unscientific. People barely have any idea about how to hire a software engineer, much less judge someone's true "ability". Preferences are also very complicated. People may prefer things very differently given the environment. That quote, along with many others, demonstrates the absolute lack of genuineness on…

Why is it that one side gets to make claims accepted blindly as fact unquestionably (unequal representation of women is solely because of sexism) and the other side must be objective / scientific?

The reality is: we don't have a complete answer as to why there is unequal representation of women in tech. Period. We can explore this issue, and in the mean time, let's not make unsupportable claims and assumptions about humans, Ok?

Re: James Damore has filed a class action lawsuit against Google

#320

Post by bmelton » Mon, Jan 08, 2018, 7:28 PM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #199

viridian wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I largely agreed with the memo. I have coworkers and friends who fell on either side of the camp, but more in the agree camp than disagree. Should we just purge half the developers in Columbus for Silicon Valley wrongthink? edit: looks like thenayr updated his post a couple of times since my reply. When written only the first two lines were present.

(1) Your anecdotal evidence is literally worthless. You need to provide some statistics that 50% of developers support him. I can easily self select 100% of developers who disagree with Damore. (2) If you agree/disagree with Damore that's great. It's your right as a person to have opinions and no company can criticise you for that. What you can't do however is publicise these issues on any forum. It's simply not a to…

Do you really mean to suggest that someone holding contrary views cannot express them on any forum?