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WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

reuters.com

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Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#311

Post by jimnotgym »

novaRom wrote: post #230
juanmirocks wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. You are not misunderstanding me. You are right that there are several European countries with a well spread normalization of using credit cards. In the European countries that I've spent most of my life, and which are also some of the biggest ones (Germany, France, Spain) have still IMO a poor acceptance of credit cards. -- In contrast, for example, in London you can pretty much live without cash whatsoever.

What is so bad to pay with Cash? It's anonymous and sellers don't pay extra charges to any US company (Visa, PayPal, etc.). Also most of the restaurants hide their revenues from tax authorities (it was recently in the news) - otherwise the prices will be much higher, like our neighbors have (France, Italy).

> sellers don't pay extra charges to any US company (Visa, PayPal, etc.)

The EU also recently introduced and controls on credit card fees (that a merchant pays) with the aim of making it as cheap to transact as cash. That is of course only true if cash isn't being used to avoid taxation.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#312

Post by joshuamorton »

rbehrends wrote: post #289
a_imho wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't even understand how a cookie notice is equivalent to consent [1]. Anyone who consumed the content in this message agrees to pay this user 1 BTC [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_cookie#EU_cookie_directiv...

It isn't. If you look at the EU's information about it [1], you must be able to refuse processing of information that's not necessary for the functioning of the site. Virtually no site outside the EU's own ones does that. Ironically, there are some that have them even though the only cookies they use are ones that are necessary for the functioning of the site, and so are exempt. Note that this isn't just about cookie…

Really this sounds like a situation where they're setting up a system where every actor is in violation, but there's an understanding that you won't be charged, unless someone doesn't like you.

That's worrisome when it applies to people, and I'd like to think its worrisome when applied to corporations too.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#313

Post by brisance »

RestlessMind wrote: post #99

EU is one of my best hopes when it comes to privacy and really wish they start going after tech behemoths. I have given up on US authorities doing anything to reign them in. And policies in other significant countries (eg. China) would be even worse for user privacy.

Seems a German minister is not entirely on board with privacy. https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/government/germany-pre...

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#314

Post by jimnotgym »

Jdam wrote: post #151
RestlessMind wrote: post #99

EU is one of my best hopes when it comes to privacy and really wish they start going after tech behemoths. I have given up on US authorities doing anything to reign them in. And policies in other significant countries (eg. China) would be even worse for user privacy.

This is just protectionism at its finest. You better don’t think that would happen if FB was a french company. The industrial-governmental-complex is stronger in France than anywhere else in the western world.

Is it protectionist to ask US companies to pay tax and abide by our laws. Perhaps you could provide us with examples of French companies operating in the US that are breaking the law, not paying tax and getting away with it? Could I start a US chain of Jimnotgyms tomorrow and avoid tax by a dodgy brand license deal? I don't think so.

US tech companies (and in many cases the US government) have been operating as if the national laws of the rest of the world are sub-ordinate to theirs, or just in the way. Succesive UK governments have turned a blind eye due to the Special Relationship. However things are starting to catch up in the EU. There has been a distinct change in opinion towards the US in Europe I have detected. Bush jnr made the US look sub-intellectual, Obama made it seem inward-looking. I don't know anyone in Europe who thinks Trump is anything more than a deeply cynical character. People don't see the US as the land of opportunity and commerce anymore. They see it as self-serving and insular.

Great empires all come to an end. It takes time, but this one is in decline.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#315

Post by supergarfield »

pierrebeaucamp wrote: post #310
pgeorgi wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And in Germany you don't know yet what's living without cash and only with a credit card. That's because we had our own system established in 1984 (ELV, electronic direct debit based on the EC cards mentioned elsewhere). From a German point of view, a credit card is a downgrade. - The system covered all German banks (private banks, public banks = Sparkassen, credit unions) because they got their act together and se…

I don't think that matters at all. Many countries have their own debit card system and for what it's worth, I think EC cards are great debit cards. They can, however, not replace credit cards. All the benefits from credit cards really come from the fact that you're paying with credit: - Travel a lot? They sure accept Visa. - Want to pay some street vendor? Square is only possible because they don't need to dial your…

The advantages you give aren't directly related to the cards being real credit cards, though. Visa debit cards work fine all over the world, and with Stripe. (In my experience it's very common in Europe for debit cards to be dual network, domestic and Visa or MasterCard. I don't know about Germany, though.)

The real advantages of credit are spending money you don't have, and points/cashback.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#316

Post by germanier »

hartator wrote: post #145
toomuchtodo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad news friend. You have to comply with GDPR if any of your users are in the EU, even if they were originally not in the EU when they signed up. Your user merely needs to be a EU resident. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regula... --- The regulation applies if the data controller (an organization that collects data from EU residents) or processor (an organization that processes data on behalf o…

If you don't have an organization in EU, they can't sue you in the U.S. because it's allowed here. It's like the U.S. trying to sue local Amsterdam pot shop because they sell drugs to U.S. residents.

I have bad news for you: things like the Uniform Foreign Money Judgments Recognition Act exist which makes it possible to enforce foreign verdicts. Even if no such law applies, most US companies that do business with EU customers have by definition some assets in the EU even if only briefly (or else they couldn't charge them anything).

The US doesn't sue foreign pot shops because the sale happens abroad and they have decided to not bother with that but they absolutely could enacted such a law if they wanted. Who is there to stop them? The US actually does apply some of its laws abroad. Here is an example that is similar to yours https://www.insightcrime.org/news/analysis/as-us-prosecutes-...

Again, the problem is only enforceability. If they can't get hold of any money, a verdict is useless.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#318

Post by catdog »

cJ0th wrote: post #220
cosarara97 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is the issue of the account. Whatsapp and Telegram are free (signal too?) and require 0 setup. With Conversations, you either have to pay for a conversations.im account, or open your browser and register on another server. I certainly can't imagine my grandmother doing that.

How is this any more difficult than signing up for a free e-mail address and then using an e-mail app on the phone?

It isn't any different. In "the old days" chances were high you even could just login with that e-mail account you already had, not only with gmail but with some other larger providers as well.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#319

Post by notyourwork »

raverbashing wrote: post #205
juanmirocks wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the grass is always greener on the other side. I'm European, and I sure miss my perceived greater freedom and innovation of economical activities in the US. Things like having UBER banned for example in France or Germany completely throws me off. And in Germany you don't know yet what's living without cash and only with a credit card. And those damn cookie notices!! Because they show up in every page, everybo…

Last I heard, Uber works just fine in France > And in Germany you don't know yet what's living without cash and only with a credit card. That's on the Germans (especially Berliners), rest of Europe uses cards a lot more. And I'm glad the US finally took their head out of the sand and are using Chip Cards But yeah the cookie notice is pretty much useless (and I think it's been implemented badly by websites as well). N…

Can someone tell me as a consumer what benefit those chips provide?

It’s slower and security isn’t my problem because fraud is covered by the CC company. So I still don’t get what the benefit is or how our heads are above sand now?

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#320

Post by Dylan16807 »

kodablah wrote: post #302
theptip wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point that the GP post is making (which I agree with) is not to complain about the burden of complying with local regs, but to point out that consumers in the EU are going to miss out if small companies don't offer their services there due to regulatory concerns. > I cannot see how that could be a problem. This is a cost/benefit calculation, but not an easy one. In general a given set of regulations will…

> I think the point that the GP post is making [...] Yup, that was the point. > And that's their decision Some at least. It's modern European federalism. The same people that the lawmakers believe aren't able to make their own decisions about which services are good or bad for them are, yet, able to determine that these regulations will be beneficial.

> The same people that the lawmakers believe aren't able to make their own decisions about which services are good or bad for them are, yet, able to determine that these regulations will be beneficial.

That's a valid argument in a perfectly transparent world with even negotiating power. But companies are opaque or change their handling of data (that one is the basis of this story!) and there's a race to the bottom where most options are severely lacking in privacy.

And these regulations are a very minor impingement on free contract-making. You can still give up privacy, you just can't give it up irrevocably.

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