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Parents now spend twice as much time with their children as 50 years ago

economist.com

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Re: Parents now spend twice as much time with their children as 50 years ago

#311
I think back to when I was a kid...

My parents divorced when I was 6. Didn't really have a Dad to speak of until my Mum remarried when I was 14. That's a huge span of time for a kid to go through with one parent struggling to make ends meet. She worked hard and I'm sure she was stressed struggling to support 2 boys of 6 and 3.

Work for her finished 3 hours after we finished school and there often wasn't an after school program to cover us so we would go to her office and help with photocopying and filing. I never recall feeling like she wasn't there. Even when she didn't have time to pay us attention, she was there. It never occurred to me as a kid that she didn't pay me attention. I was too busy paying attention to my own interests. She was home for dinner every night. She was the worst cook in the world back then, I laugh about it now, but you know what? She tried, fuck she tried. We turned out okay. She didn't poison us and now she's an amazing cook. I'd eat her home cooked meals over a restaurant meal any day of the week. She introduced me to reading at a young age. I'd read for hours, days and weeks with our only interaction being to call out spellings of words from my bedroom to the living room to ask what the word was, I have no idea what she was doing, only that she responded to my query.

I'm thankful we had a small school and aside from a few troubled kids, most of us could say we were at least friendly if not friends. I could name every kid in that school and I knew all of their parents. We all knew at least half a dozen other parents we could go to if we needed something and long before school was out, most of us had adopted some other kids parents as our own and we floated between each others houses as if they were our own too.

Did I spend a lot of my childhood longing for what I didn't have? A relationship with my father like "normal" kids. Sure I did. I still do as an adult. But it is what it is. I make damn sure that my kids never have to wonder if I care, or wonder where my priority is. I frequently work 12-15 hours a day, including weekends. But be sure, if my kids tell me they need me somewhere for something, I drop everything and I'm there. School events, plays, recitals, karate presentations, dinner and reading to them for half an hour at bedtime.

It's important that kids have space to grow on their own. They need that. They may think they want you in their space all the time, but that breeds dependence on your approval and input into their thought processes. If you want to raise independent adults that have confidence in their own decision making skills, you need to get out of the way and give them room to make shit decisions and pick up the pieces while it's not going to kill them. Wisdom comes from experience, experience comes from making bad decisions and picking yourself up and trying again. If you bubble wrap them and protect them from every trauma you're scared of, they will never learn for themselves.

I think if I analyze my childhood, my Mum probably spent only a fraction with us boys that would be seen as acceptable today, certainly much less than I give my kids, but in my eyes she did it right. She gave us the room to become strong independent men, able to stand alone and take on the world. She gave us just enough pride to make us feel like we'd earned it, but not enough to let it go to our heads. Able to make decisions for ourselves and deal with the consequences of those decisions and clean up our own messes. If I could rewind to my childhood and ask her to do anything differently, I wouldn't ask her to change a thing. She did good.

The greatest thing I learned from her was that you don't need to panic about raising your kids. All you need to do is observe and listen. Your kids will tell you what they need. Give just enough, just enough to make them earn it. This way when they become adults, they will know how to make it on their own.

Re: Parents now spend twice as much time with their children as 50 years ago

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You appear to be describing the difference between a communist society and a capitalist one. The elders, and everyone, helps to raise the child in the "agrarian" because they realise the benefit acrues to all of society, and they have humanity; the modern way is to not do it because you can do other stuff that makes you more profit and puts you ahead of the others. People in "The West" are much more involved in compe…

You appear to be confusing communist with agricultural and capitalist with industrial.

I don't think so, just trying to use the context of "agrarian village life" that the parent used. The point is that Capitalism provides a framework in which time, and particularly action, is linked directly to financial recompense and in which profit motive - rather than other firms of value - is lauded most highly. That moves away from community spirit, cooperation, fostering others, and towards greater emphasis on individual monetary wealth (and consumption that indicates such wealth).

Re: Parents now spend twice as much time with their children as 50 years ago

#313

> One analysis of 11 rich countries estimates that the average mother spent 54 minutes a day caring for children in 1965 but 104 minutes in 2012. Men do less than women, but far more than men in the past: their child-caring time has jumped from 16 minutes a day to 59. I spend 100+ minutes every day changing diapers. Actually that's not true, most of my time is spent trying to put the stupid newborn to go to sleep. I…

My kid would fall asleep 100% in the car. Heck there were times when I would take her for a drive precisely for this purpose. After five minutes driving she would fall asleep.

I then used to take out the car seat with her so not to wake her up.

Re: Parents now spend twice as much time with their children as 50 years ago

#314

If this article is accurate (data source looks shady and lacking statistical significance) I believe it. I think for me, the main thing that would explain the increase is that you now have to watch your kid. What I mean is, when my parents were growing up, they would just wander the streets, hang out with other kids, and generally raise themselves. But now in days (at least in US) parent supervision is required for j…

No more good reasons than historically. The media is to blame for much of the hysteria around what we should be doing as parents. I would've gone out of my mind as a kid if I was raised the way parents are expected to inject themselves into every facet of their kids lives. I need my space, even when I'm in a relationship I don't want anyone injecting themselves in my space. Not my parents, not my partner, not my kids, nobody. If you never make your kids deal with being unsupervised and alone for periods, they will never be able to be alone, which will make them dependent on spouses and partners constantly for their emotional well-being. That is unhealthy for themselves and their partners.

Obviously we can't know the consequences of society's overbearing and overzealous parenting "rules" until our kids become adults, but mark my words, they will come back to bite our kids in the asses if we don't give our kids room to breathe.

Re: Parents now spend twice as much time with their children as 50 years ago

#315
post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people write ‘baby’ or ‘newborn’ with no article like that? Surely it’s ‘a baby’ or ‘the baby’ or ‘your baby’ or maybe ‘babies’ if you mean in general. Just ‘baby’ sounds like broken English. You wouldn’t write ‘manager sent me an email’, you’d write ‘my manager’ or something like that with an article.

I'm really glad to get feedback from English native. I'm even more happy because your feedback confirms my expectations: articles are really hard for me, because my first language does not have them.

I'm a Spanish native speaker and I also have problems with articles, but it seems like I have the opposite problem, it seems like Spanish uses articles more often than English, so I usually add them when they are not required, maybe not grammatically incorrect but sometimes I could sound kinda weird.

Re: Parents now spend twice as much time with their children as 50 years ago

#316
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accepting that my needs come second and just generally trying to make things smooth for my son has made our relationship so much better. I used to think that I would be able to get an hour or two of work done when he was asleep,but the result was never good. I was stressed out after my third month of paternity leave. For the remaining months (we get 195 days to use as we please at 80% pay in Sweden) I just called dow…

I got 15 days and thought it was generous.

I was offered the 12 weeks of unpaid leave mandated by the government. I ended up using 10 of my PTO days.

Re: Parents now spend twice as much time with their children as 50 years ago

#317
post #280

I know many parents were at least the father started working more and often far away from their family. Sure they need more money with children, but how good is the money if you only see them on the weekend? Sometimes it sounds like an excuse so they don't have to hang around with them, but maybe I'm just bitter, because my father left me when I was 6 and even the years before I barely saw him :/

It's so weird how different our perspectives are given that my father too left when I was 6. Despite feeling some... I dunno, I guess a wish that I'd had a relationship with him. But I don't feel any bitterness or anger towards him. He did what was right for him and I can't fault him for that. Sure, it meant I didn't have a Dad and we now don't have a relationship because there was never time for that to grow, so that's a little sad, but I don't harbor any resentment for that. I'll have a pint with him if I see him, he's a nice guy, I like what I know of him, I see a lot of myself in him, but he may as well just be some other guy. We've probably not spent more than 6 months of time together in total since I was 6. I'll be 42 this year. It would be easy to harbour resentment for that, but what's the point? It doesn't serve any purpose, it won't change anything. It won't bring us closer together. It'll just make two people feel bad without any positive value.

Re: Parents now spend twice as much time with their children as 50 years ago

#318
post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This lead me to think: "Parents now spend twice as much time with their children as 50 years ago" - well no wonder parents seem stressed and overworked!

Time for bedtime routine for my two children: 3-4 hours every evening.

You know, it doesn’t have to be this way. Make parenting work for you. After all, simply by making your children, you’ve already given them the incredible gift of life. There’s no need to also spend every waking hour attending to them.

Re: Parents now spend twice as much time with their children as 50 years ago

#319

> One analysis of 11 rich countries estimates that the average mother spent 54 minutes a day caring for children in 1965 but 104 minutes in 2012. Men do less than women, but far more than men in the past: their child-caring time has jumped from 16 minutes a day to 59. I spend 100+ minutes every day changing diapers. Actually that's not true, most of my time is spent trying to put the stupid newborn to go to sleep. I…

Hate to tell you, but time requirements only go up from newborn stage.

Personally, I'm glad fatherhood is evolving. I love spending time with my son. I just tell myself to try and enjoy what I can, because at somepoint, it'll be different, and I will miss it.

Congrats on being a dad, btw.

Re: Parents now spend twice as much time with their children as 50 years ago

#320

> [for men] child-caring time has jumped from 16 minutes a day to 59. I always wanted to spend more time with my own children than my father did with me. It's nice to know I'm not the only one who managed to pull it off.

Perhaps ... I've spent 12 hours today with my kids, all but the first hour-90 minutes of their day (excepting school time for the schoolies; about 5 hours in the same space as them). I didn't read the article but is this effect coming from father's doing more time as stay-at-home parents? [FWIW we're dead poor financially at least in part through choice to have lots of contact with our kids.]

After spending 12 hours with my kids, they would spend about 6 of those fighting with each other and me pulling my hair out and wanting to bash their heads together because they can't see their way past their rage for the other's existence.

No matter what I try, they just cannot accept that each other have free will to do as they please and that isn't always going to coincide with what they want and they need to learn to be okay with that. 12 hours straight with them is like putting all of us in a torture chamber. They're angels when they're apart, but put them in the same room together for more than 20 minutes and it's like the Blair Witch Project.

By the end of the weekend, I find myself longing for Monday for them to go back to school and be separated from one another :D

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